this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2026
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But I'm just another off-the-shelf engineer now. I have no domain expertise that another Sr. engineer steering an LLM cannot match.

Funny because I think this is more important than ever. You can produce (ugly) code at remarkable pace now, being able to detect where it goes wrong is a very important skill nowadays.

I still can't let it loose too much because of all the garbage it still produces when given too much freedom. I'm honestly annoyed that my colleagues use it that much on production code, because it's so much meh code with hidden (on the surface) inefficiencies and a lot of avoidable boilerplate and duplication.

Then on the other hand I enjoy that it can create scripts (that are tedious to write) and prototypes at impressive speed. Generally prototyping and research has gotten quite enjoyable because you can stay most of the time on the theoretical side of things, quickly try things out or quickly get info to stuff you don't yet understand enough.

[–] shoo@lemmy.world 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The post misses a few things:

  1. The ai bubble is currently being subsidized to an unimaginable degree. If you were to actually pay true cost for your token usage, you wouldn't be saving that much over an engineer's salary. Probably even worse once AI companies start to extract a real profit. 95% of companies diving into agentic labor will be in for a rude awakening when they balance next year's budget.
  2. The cost to keep ai useful in its current form has a high floor. Unless you keep up with expensive training, your models will drift. You can only scale your model intelligence with more hardware (roughly). In two years, Claude opus 4.8 will still be bloating context to learn about the latest cloud platforms and libraries. A human engineer will get those passively at no cost to the company.
  3. As the complexity of the task grows the complexity of the ai babysitter must match it. Even if Ai stays cost effective, companies can now save money by spinning up bespoke in-house software to cut out vendors (think observability platforms, task tracking, product design, marketing systems, etc...). No matter how many adversarial reviews and sub agents you spin up, an Ai can't grasp the full context of your company and it's shifting priorities. The software engineer role transitions to a pseudo-sysadmin + product architect.

C-suites don't want know about software and don't care about non functional requirements (security, availability, audit ability, etc...). They just want to wave a magic wand and have a product appear, which is what Ai provides the illusion of. That's why all current Ai software is garbage, but the smarter companies will catch on

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 3 days ago (3 children)

A human engineer will get those passively at no cost to the company.

Some human engineers. I still regularly have to explain Git to people that never bothered to learn.

Also I think you are forgetting that AI is still improving and getting cheaper. Not super quickly, but even if it is too expensive now, is that still going to be true in 10 years? I doubt it.

[–] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

People kept saying same thing about self driving cars. Look where it will be in 5 to 10 years. 10 years later and … meh

It’s expensive to keep those models trained. Investors won’t do this forever.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

We literally have self-driving cars now. In super-easy driving locations like San Francisco to be fair, but that's not nothing. They're supposed to be launching in London this year too.

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[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's not getting cheaper. Every new model has been getting more expensive. OpenAI and Anthropic both want to IPO, but that means they need to start trying to make a profit. Their prices have been going through the roof.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It is getting cheaper to do the same thing. New models are more expensive but also more capable.

[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But it's not getting cheaper to do the same thing. Models charge by the token the price per token is going up. They don't charge by the outcome.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The price per token for the same model isn't going up (if you are paying per token anyway - I know they underpriced subscriptions).

[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

Those same models can only do the shitty work they were able to do before the new models came out. You're not making a point that anything is getting cheaper.

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[–] keimevo@lemmy.world 116 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I think the author is mostly right about the current state of AI, but his future predictions (or worries) are based on a false premise: that the massive LLMs will keep improving in the future.

As far as I have seen the improvements have clearly slowed down, while the energy consumption is rising linearly (or worse). It's like the energy (money) vs. performance graph is logarithmic, and the companies are expending double the energy to get a 10% improvement. Something like that is not sustainable, and the money seems to indicate so.

I really think that LLMs are a dead-end for AI. A really useful dead-end, once the bubble pops and with time, we get a useful working model for them, probably based mostly on local LLMs, maybe using specialized training data.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 18 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Energy efficiency has improved by orders of magnitude - leading to much higher energy use. It's the Jevons paradox and it's as old as coal-gas lighting. Last year some guy recreated GPT2 for twenty bucks. Corpus to model in one hour. OpenAI never said how much the original cost, but there was at least one comma.

But yeah, LLMs are fundamentally limited, because 'what's the next word' shouldn't work. The fact it's accidentally this flexible and powerful, even with its many infamous fuckups, is a reminder that neural networks in general will permanently alter computing. Models trained on supercomputers can run on any potato. Any problem with good examples can be addressed, without first being solved.

[–] ExFed@programming.dev 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (25 children)

LLMs are fundamentally limited, because 'what's the next word' shouldn't work.

Yes, you're right. However, for fear of coming off as an AI sycophant (I've yet to sacrifice my brain at the altar of our future AI overlords), LLMs aren't the whole picture. Plenty of research is dedicated to essentially combining the best of each class of AI algorithms into a composite model of intelligence. For instance, "Neuro-Symbolic AI" is really just the result of giving an LLM (good at translation, search, synthesis, bad at symbolic reasoning) a symbolic inference engine like Prolog (good at symbolic reasoning, no native ability for translation/search/synthesis). I've been coding for over 20 years, and I'm impressed at its results for software development.

This all is reminiscent of Moore's Law; even though we keep running into the physical limits of CPU clock speeds, transistor size, etc. we keep finding clever ways to work around those limits.

Of course I'm not saying we should; these models are, after all, models of intelligence, not wisdom.

Edit: fix apostrophe splice

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[–] darklamer@feddit.org 69 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Nobody needs A or B-grade codebases anymore because they're being made for LLMs, not for humans to read.

That will come back to bite them in the arse, mark my words.

[–] criss_cross@lemmy.world 35 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

It’s also patently false.

A good chunk of good patterns are to make sure humans understand it sure. But a good chunk of patterns exist to make individual components reusable and make sure you’re encapsulating requirements and testing them correctly.

A lot of LLMs take the “easy” way out and duplicate code, suppress listing, etc to make a prompt work. It works at that point in time but when you suddenly have a bunch of spaghetti and repeated code littered across multiple services suddenly making changes without causing massive regressions becomes a headache.

Companies are going to pay for this mess in several months as token prices go up and the codebase is a massive pile of slop.

[–] dnick@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That's going to be the bubble. When AI has to be able to actually pay for itself, no one is going to be able to afford it, and if you happen to be one of the companies that went all in any used AI to build your codebase and fire not devs and front line workers, you're going to be the hardest hit. Possibly the only hope is that they saved enough from partial and didn't pass any savings on to the customer (because of course they wouldn't) that they can almost survive the actual unsubsidized token costs. But then you will be in direct competition with everyone else who can write a prompt with likely literally no differentiator outside of maybe name recognition in an industry.

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[–] douglasg14b@lemmy.world 31 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here.

All of the qualities that make a codebase easier to read, maintain, and consume by humans do the same things for LLMs.

A codebase designed for humans is a codebase that is designed for LLMs. It's just that most teams don't even know how to design a codebase for humans. And those same teams just kind of accept LLM and Agent Slop as "Designed for LLMs". When it most definitely is not.


  • Patternization
  • Structural consistency
  • Naming conventions
  • Style Opinionation
  • Organizational conventions
  • Safety and Quality Standards
  • ...etc

All these things matter just as much for humans as they do for LLMs. And like I said previously, most human developers don't understand these things and do not optimize for them anyways. Which means that most human developers are ill-equipped to create codebases that are not degrading rapidly under the use of agents.


This is a bit of a rant of mine... because I've spent the last decade learning how to optimize software engineering to best fit the needs of humans. Now that LLMs are crashing onto the scene, teams that already were writing slop by hand can now write slop at twenty times the rate. And then seem to think that all the things that make for good software no longer apply to them

[–] setsubyou@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago

Some of these are arguably much more important for LLMs because of limited context sizes. The more of the code in the context window follows good practice, the more likely the LLM is to align with it. Any nonsense in the context window will multiply and beat that one document with the style guide that the LLM might not even see.

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[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 77 points 4 days ago (12 children)

Give it time. My software career is also affected. At the rate they're spending money at an order of magnitude higher than they're making. They've also all borrowed money from each other. It's going to collapse in a big heap. Hopefully before it sucks in mum and dad investors.

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[–] Calfpupa@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 days ago

The answer is start a union that strikes over AI usage.

[–] trem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, I find it difficult, too, especially since management hasn't caught onto this yet and still wants me to specialize.
And of course, the answer is that I should specialize in AI, because there's currently a lot of new development happening there. But that knowledge is also getting obsolete by the minute, with ever more tools coming out and then again other tools that operate those tools for you.

The one thing I hold onto, is that no matter how the situation evolves, the basic job requirements for software engineering, i.e. being smart and being able to learn quickly, will always be an advantage.
I don't think it's possible to hold onto the confort zone from before, even if the industry implodes from the AI costs becoming transparent. But yeah, I do think we'll land on our feet in one way or another.

[–] setsubyou@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I’m not sure about specializing, but there’s a lot of stuff you can learn in the AI field that was useful before the current hype bubble and will remain useful going forward. Traditional ML is huge and doesn’t move quite as fast as e.g. LLM applications.

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[–] amio@lemmy.world 25 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Try to argue with the LLM evangelists, the inevitable brain damage it causes will let you get on disability.

On one hand this is not the first hype cycle, on the other hand the other hype cycles didn't all fade. The inevitable bullshit brought on by vibecoding and shit like that is eventually going to be some kind of problem. People may or may not just ignore that problem, like most other issues in tech.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 18 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The world is changing. It happens from time to time. In this case the change is a particularly big one and it's still ongoing, so I can't make any predictions about where it's going to end. But I can be pretty confident that it's not going to magically change back. So my best advice is to try out the new tools, see whether you can adapt to them and use them to improve your own productivity in new ways, and if not then as a fallback start looking at other directions to take your career.

Harsh, perhaps, but the world does as the world does.

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The only thing to do is ride the wave of the new technology. You either do that or drown. I've written a literal book's worth of text on how AI should think and behave when writing software and it straight up cannot write code as well as me when left to its own devices, even with all my guidance. LLMs, no matter the size, are structurally incapable of holding all the context needed to write good code in complex systems because they cannot compress complex topics into ideas they've never encountered and reason about the compressed state with their limited reasoning capacity (otherwise known as "learning").

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