Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious biased sources will be removed at the mods’ discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted separately but not to the post body. Sources may be checked for reliability using Wikipedia, MBFC, AdFontes, GroundNews, etc.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source. Clickbait titles may be removed.
Posts which titles don’t match the source may be removed. If the site changed their headline, we may ask you to update the post title. Clickbait titles use hyperbolic language and do not accurately describe the article content. When necessary, post titles may be edited, clearly marked with [brackets], but may never be used to editorialize or comment on the content.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials, videos, blogs, press releases, or celebrity gossip will be allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis. Mods may use discretion to pre-approve videos or press releases from highly credible sources that provide unique, newsworthy content not available or possible in another format.
7. No duplicate posts.
If an article has already been posted, it will be removed. Different articles reporting on the same subject are permitted. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners or news aggregators.
All posts must link to original article sources. You may include archival links in the post description. News aggregators such as Yahoo, Google, Hacker News, etc. should be avoided in favor of the original source link. Newswire services such as AP, Reuters, or AFP, are frequently republished and may be shared from other credible sources.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
"Detained because of flight risk"
Hes poor, he's homeless. Where the fuck is he going to go?
The woods.
Let nature take its course. The bears will eventually find him. Until then WGAF if he’s living out there?
I care that his garbage is not being properly disposed of.
Yeah it's a mixed conservation recreation area. People living there impedes both purposes. Especially when those people are mentally ill and not committed to the aims of the forest service
Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope under that garbage.
27 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was.
The Grinch!!
It is unclear if Gatz was living in the national forest because he was experiencing homelessness.
...Yeah, I think we can safely assume that, yes.
In 2023, the National Homelessness Law Center called on the feds to stop arresting people for living on public lands and shift to a housing- and services-only approach, after undercover Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management police officers shot a disabled man in the back during a removal operation and left (him) paralyzed from the waist down.
He and his family had been living in the Payette National Forest near Boise, Idah, after their landlord reportedly evicted them from their home and they were unable to find space in area shelters.
Just a big reminder that we could end homelessness in America for about $20 billion per year.
That's about the same amount the federal government pays every year to give farmers super cheap crop insurance.
So, it's a choice we're making. Allowing homelessness, and abject poverty to exist, as a cudgel to those who would otherwise seek to drop out of the rat race.
That’s about the same amount the federal government pays every year to give farmers super cheap crop insurance.
Or 1/15 of what we're paying Iran for "losing" the war.
I don't disagree with you that $20 billion is a drop in the federal bucket that would be returned tenfold in improved societal shifts and increases in economic output. I also don't love farm subsidies, but in terms of places to pull $20 billion from, I'd rather start with investments in foreign countries committing genocide and then work our way over to the military budget if that doesn't cover the entire bill.
I'm not saying that we should pull the money from crop insurance subsidies, just that we pay like $20 billion a year for a thing that most people have never heard about. We could similarly pay for this with as much gusto.
If billionaires and corporations payed taxes at the same rate we do, we’d be able to do all this.
Under capitalism, homelessness is a feature. The spectacle of it keeps those with homes scared of being without.
With the way shit is going, I don't blame the guy for wanting to live alone in the woods
His residence was a giant pile of garbage. I mean, he's not like, 3M or Mr. Burns, but we I don't think we want people trash dumping in national parks. They're in enough danger as it is. If you move your campsite every 14 days and don't litter, you could live there indefinitely, it would seem.
I'm all for living in the woods, but this guy was definitely doing it wrong multiple ways
I do volunteer work for a couple homeless orgs in Canada and reading this story doesn't surprise me. he wasn't "doing it wrong" he was doing what was logical in his head. I see guys all the time carrying around bags or pushing a car literally filled with garbage. paper, cans, tim hortons cups, whatever. They pick it up, they keep it. It's a form of hording. It's not so much "I could potentially use this one day" its more like "I have nothing and having something makes me feel a bit more normal". It's 100% a mental illness and you always find it with older individuals. They carry around too much and the majority of which they don't need but they carry it because they need "something". They need some kind of possession. they just collect garbage.
I never thought about it in that way, but it certainly makes sense to try and get a bit of control and normalcy back.
I'm making plans to do that
Likewise. I was homeless and lived like that. It was hard but also one of the most liberating experiences of my life. I already had survival training and lots of outdoors experience which helped.
Things are looking pretty grim for me again and I have been stocking up on supplies, bought all the gear I need for a prolonged stay outdoors, tent, clothes, everything.
I'm not gonna get caught living in a trashy one man summer tent in the middle of winter again, I'm gonna be homeless in style.
Man caught
Sounds like he wasn't doing anything wrong or harming anyone in any meaningful capacity.
Why not just let him live in peace?
But he didn't pay anyone anything!!! Lol
I guess "1000lbs of trash" doesn't sound as bad as "half a ton"?
That's like, maybe 1-2 months of household, curbside waste for an average family. This dude was living there for 8 years.
If he was there for 8 years, that means he was paying taxes into the system for 40 years before he nope'd out and headed to the woods, which his taxes paid for.
And this is what he gets in return. Tsk tsk.
He'd accumulated this pile during 2 years at this site, so he's left similar messes in several other places. And he's got a long history of careless fires, like leaving them burning, even at the height of fire season. And he's got an SUV, so it's not like he couldn't have taken his trash out.
"The trash consisted of tires, plastic bags. trash bags, aluminum cans and other items of trash. I observed a canopy structure for his sport utility vehicle. The canopy structure was being utilized as a car port.”
Gatz, who is 65 years-old, according to public records, also had a fireplace with “active embers and a cooking station with 10-12 frying pans,” as well as “[d]ebris [that] consisted of three ladders, six to eight totes overfilled with debris… five black 55-gallon drums… eight tires, four bike frames, five gallons of motor oil, plywood, and other miscellaneous lumber around the campsite,”
That's not necessary stuff, it's a wildfire waiting to happen.
I guess “1000lbs of trash” doesn’t sound as bad as “half a ton”?
That’s like, maybe 1-2 months of household, curbside waste for an average family.
I'm sorry, WHAT?
Individually, the average American generated 4.9 pounds of waste per day in 2018
4.9 lb/day x 4 people x 30 days = 588 lbs, so really not that far off.
Uhhh, 1-2 months?!? It’s just two of us in our household, but we usually don’t fill one 45L kitchen trash bag every two weeks by the time trash pickup comes. So probably 15lbs every two weeks? So about 60lbs every two months. It would be unfathomable to produce 1000lbs in two months.
One pickup load of trash, or what everybody who doesn't pay for trash service accumulates before driving it to the dump for $10.
Either he's hauling his trash out or he's extremely good at eliminating waste.
(He was there for 2 years)
Having been homeless and lived in a forest, you really don't create much trash. Depends I guess, but you just don't consume much when you're broke and living in a tent outside of society.
Great for the waistline too. Lots of outdoors activity and a perpetual caloric deficit.
I'd put money on him dumping it in a ravine nearby that they haven't found yet
It is unclear if Gatz was living in the national forest because he was experiencing homelessness.
How the fuck is this "unclear"? Do they think this was just his daytime hangout location, and that he went "home" every night to sleep indoors? smh.
my retirement plan
Just don't trash it
I treat parks better than I treat myself
Welcome to the Tonto National Forest, please treat us better than you.
Just a guy living his best life and society just can't leave him alone
As long as he's cleaning up his trash I don't mind. Kinda sounds like he wasn't though.
What do you mean "caught"?
The entire headline is just monumentally misleading if I read half of this right lol