this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2026
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[–] frigge@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago

Aufmerksamkeitsdefizithyperaktivitätssyndrom

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

ya, da sperkenzspleitzchenraufmoderhausen

[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Mundhirnverbindungslatenz.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 50 points 2 days ago (14 children)

German compound nouns are just written without spaces. There's no grammatical difference between "Schlafsack" (= Schlaf "sleep" + Sack "bag") and "sleeping bag", except the way they're written down. In English we analyse a "word" as "a thing you write down with spaces on either side", which is valid as a definition or as an analysis, but it's not what we really think of when we talk about words, which we think of as something more fundamental.

If, tomorrow, we decided in English to write compound nouns without spaces, the language would have suddenly gained thousands and thousands of words, yet the only real difference would be a rule about writing things down. Spoken English would be exactly the same, so nothing fundamental about the actual bits of English would have changed.

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 35 points 2 days ago (1 children)

One of my frustrations with English is that spaces in compound nouns are arbitrary. We have fishbowl but also fish tank.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 18 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Well the rest of the rules around written English are arbitrary, why would this one be different?!

I think I'd write fish bowl separately though.

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[–] ladybugs@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago

oh no. you broke the English language!

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 32 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] chickenf622@sh.itjust.works 19 points 2 days ago

Username checks out

[–] TBi@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

My fish bowl in a fishbowl.

[–] DougPiranha42@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Pink Floyd:

How I wish, how I wish you were here
We're just two lost souls swimming in
a fishbowl, year after year
Running over the same old ground, what have we found?
The same old fears, wish you were here

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

Seems I'm just old-fashioned:

image

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 days ago

Wikipedia explains "the rules."

Tap for spoilerThey're more suggestions.

Orthography: open, hyphenated, or solid (closed up)

English uses many open compound nouns, a large subclass of which, by convention in accepted English orthography, are not closed up (not solidified) and are sometimes optionally hyphenated in attributive position (that is, when functioning as a noun adjunct). Examples are high school, kidney disease, and file format. Although some other languages would close up these nouns' components (for example, German usually does so), English has a tendency whereby it closes up only certain ones, usually only ones in which the head noun is monosyllabic (and even within that category, only sometimes, and in a way that is not fully standardized). For example, data set and dataset, or file name and filename, are accepted alternative forms, but file format, data format, and data analysis, which have multisyllabic heads (format and analysis), can only be spelled as open in accepted English orthography. This pattern holds for countless nouns with few exceptions. For the class with monosyllabic heads, there is a tendency that "compounds tend to solidify as they age,"[5]: 368  which is how a term such as data set becomes dataset, pin-up becomes pinup,[5]: 368  coal mine becomes coalmine, bottle cap becomes bottlecap, and so on. Such alternative forms usually continue to coexist in accepted use; style guides often convene on preferred dictionaries as a way of achieving consistency, by declaring that the headword form there will be the default styling for each such term.

[–] Denjin@feddit.uk 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Depends if it's a fish bowl (a bowl for a fish) or a fishbowl (a big watered down drink you can buy from bad nightclubs)

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[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Mostly true, but in standard German one would normally vocalize "Schlafsack" without any audible pause between the f and the s.

If you were to pronounce "Schlaf sack", there would generally be an expectation of a glottal stop between the f and the s (dialects excluded).

So while, yes, compound words in German are written without spaces, that's not just a writing difference.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is the same in English between "sleeping" and "bag". The pronunciation of "ing ba" in "sleeping bag" is exactly the same as the pronunciation of "ingba" in "dingbat".

In German, just the same: there is not generally a pause between words written separately: there's no gap that you can find on a spectrogram of a recording of someone saying, say, "brauner Sack" between the two words.

I think people are surprised to hear this, so one explanation for what you wrote is that you genuinely believe in speech there is generally a tiny pause between words, that you don't find within words. It's difficult to find a good citation for this because it's a fairly basic fact in linguistics, in spite of how surprising it may be; the best I came up with was this Duolingo post

But you may already be aware of that and be getting at something else: in German, "Schlafsack" is a word that will be understood by anyone if you say it in the normal way. To get someone to understand that you're saying the two words "Schlaf Sack" next to one another without understanding "Schlafsack", you need to do something to make it clear, otherwise they'll understand the normal word. And one way to do that would be to insert a tiny gap. This is different though: in English if you wanted someone to understand "sleeping bag" not as the thing you use while camping but, perhaps, an anthropomorphic bag that is having a nap, you need to employ something similar. So this is not a difference between the languages.

[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

In German, just the same: there is not generally a pause between words written separately: there’s no gap that you can find on a spectrogram of a recording of someone saying, say, “brauner Sack” between the two words.

At the cost of appealing to authority: As a native German speaker, I can absolutely hear the glottal stop between two separate words. It exists. It can also often be found between consecutive vowels within a word, but not necessarily between consecutive consonants like in your example. There's a reason why it's in the IPA. It's also e.g. the basis for the "gender not-really-neutral" dialect of German, which injects an additional glottal stop into a word (like Bürger:innen, which is pronounced like Bürger innen, not like Bürgerinnen).

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Paradoxically, non-native speakers tend to be better at analysing this kind of thing ;) German for sure does not have a glottal stop between most words. "Das Kind" is /daskınt/ not /dasʔkınt/.

I'm not sure if I've misunderstood you and this isn't what you're saying happens...

[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

“Das Kind” is /daskınt/ not /dasʔkınt/.

It absolutely is /dasʔkınt/ in the standard German I've grown up with. I've never heard ~~anyone~~ any native speaker pronounce it as /daskınt/.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

Can you find a recording (not necessarily of someone saying "das kind", but of any two words, the first ending and the second beginning with a consonant) where you can hear this glottal stop put in between? It should come from flowing speech, not the boundary of a clause or sentence where the speaker might insert an extra pause, of course. If you want to record yourself demonstrating it, that would be perfect but I appreciate you may not want to.

Ideally also a recording of as much of the same sequence of sounds without it, for comparison, but that's less important :)

edit: realised I could give you an example myself. Here's a recording from Wiktionary, a native speaker saying "aus Kindern werden Leute". There is no glottal stop between any of the words.

And while finding that I realised there is a point from the other direction: in precise speech, there is a glottal stop in German compounds where the second part starts with a vowel sound. So Spiegelei is listed in the Duden as having a glottal stop before the "Ei".

[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

If you provide storage to upload four audio .wav files (each about 400 KiB), I can send you samples generated by me speaking, then cloned with w-okada using a generic voice I believe is freely usable. It's far from perfect, but it's good enough for me to clearly tell which is which just by listening.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know of anywhere suitable, sorry. Also if you are not comfortable sharing your own voice (which I perfectly understand, I also would not want to) I don't think a voice changer is the way to go.

Maybe we will have to leave that thread here then - I also understand if you don't want to go digging for examples. I would be interested to know still if you hear the glottal stops you're talking about in the example above, though?

Generalising the Spiegelei example: in order to read a word in a language which writes its compounds without spaces, you need to be able to break words down into their compounds correctly. Just reading the letters, with no knowledge of vocabulary, "Gewinnspiel" could be analysed in at least two ways: "Gewinns·piel" or "Gewinn·spiel". The "s" would be pronounced differently between the two analyses (respectively as a /z/ or a /ʃ/ following regular German pronunciation rules).

Fun stuff!

[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I would be interested to know still if you hear the glottal stops you’re talking about in the example above, though?

In the voice changed output for "Das Kind"? It's not perfect, but yes. If you're interested in the "biomechanics": It's the difference between a miniscule stopping of the continuous exhalation from your mouth for the s before starting a new burst exhalation for the k vs doing both as part of the same single exhalation that directly changes from continuous to burst.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I meant the "aus Kindern werden Leute" recording

[–] ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Yes, there's a stop of exhalation between the s and the K. If there wasn't, it would sound more like the sk of the English word sky instead.

EDIT: He does not, however, stop between Kindern and werden and not between werden and Leute, which does sound weird to me. Less like standard German and more like a dialect.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 12 minutes ago

Well, there has to be a stop of exhalation, because the "k" sound is a stop and that is basically the definition of a stop! One thing I want to be pedantic about though: this is not a glottal stop, which is a specific sound made by closing the glottis. "k" denotes a velar stop, which is different.

You can see this stop as a dark area on the spectrogram:

image

But here's the spectrogram of someone saying sky:

image

You can see there is the same dark area! Pronouncing a "k" requires cutting off the airstream in the middle of a word also. The duration is about the same; 30 or 40ms in both cases.

If you look further through "aus Kindern werden Leute" in an audio editor you won't see this dark area between "Kindern" and "werden", nor between "werden" and "Leute". These don't have stops between them, so the sound is continuous, even though they're separate words.

It's easy to see the stop in "Leute" - this is almost as complete as that between "aus" and "Kindern". Less obvious are those in "Kindern" and "werden" (both for a letter "d"), but you can also see the dark areas.

I hope this is enough to explain how what you're hearing between some words also occurs within words, and between many words this phenomenon doesn't happen. Phonetics is tricky. It's like learning to draw - at first you don't hear (or see) just what is there, but instead what you know is there. You know that "aus Kindern" or "das Kind" is two separate words, so you hear a break. You know that "Leute" or "sky" is one word, so you don't hear any break.

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

I didn't believe you at first so I checked a few. This kind of ruins the magic tbh.

[–] MrOtingocni@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Wow, I actually learned something today.

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[–] Malica@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago
[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 51 points 2 days ago (7 children)

German words don't tend to be long and convoluted. That's just a stereotype due to writing rules.

A sentence spelled without spaces isn't a word.

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Stereotype?

Stereo type?

Stereo-type?

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[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Not that I am aware of, sorry.

All the words posted before by the others in the thread are made up, and some of them aren't even good at pretending to be German.

[–] fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Yeah but not all of them are rectently made up by an individual person for the purpose of being posted here in order to mislead others about words that are in practical use.

[–] Octopus@quokk.au 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Off topic, but in English, it’s called an ‘audio processing disorder’

[–] a_jeering_serpent@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 days ago

What? No say the exact same words again. What’s a singdis? Audio process singdis order? Audio processing disorder! Oh, I have one of those! Why? What’s up? I wasn’t listening.

[–] Sly2@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Umgekehrt proportionales-Denk-plapper Verhältnis?

[–] ajikeshi@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

talking without thinking.... that could be called "amischnattern"

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[–] username_1@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 days ago

What?
Oh, why do you care? You wouldn't be able to pronounce it anyway :)

[–] DickCaramel@piefed.social 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)
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[–] remon@ani.social 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Not that I'm aware of but you can always make one up.

Like "verarbeitiungszeitintensive Frage" or something like that.

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[–] lokalhorst@feddit.org 5 points 2 days ago

Dumme Angewohnheit.

[–] Zensate@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

No but they do have a word for asking about it

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

Shaddenlisten

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

Ooh I've had this happen

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