this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2026
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*This comic was about France in 2021, but this style seems much more widespread.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago

Bottom doesn't have trees, bushes and the sea. Modernism does not have to be soulless.

Also, let's talk about the class issue. The people who live in the most boxy and ugly "boxes" today would be living in literal shacks in the past. Not everyone is a wealthy farmer.

Don't idealize the past and don't forego the future.

We should be building beautiful, livable, comfortable housing for all humans.

[–] gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Fachwerksbau (Alsace) is just fetish harness for houses, change my mind.

[–] Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Having seen other German words, I'm going to just blindly guess that the word etymology is this:

Fachwerksbau

Fuckworks Bau

Sex worker Bough

Sex Dungeon Beams

Yep, fetish harness house.

[–] LazyBaby@lemmy.zip 2 points 23 hours ago

I don't want to

Architectural degeneration.

[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago (5 children)

This is dictated by cost and the desire to insulate. It's possible to build well insulated buildings that look traditional, but it's going to cost more and it's not going to improve the quality of living inside the house.

Flat rectangular insulation panels with plaster on top placed on large flat surfaces -vs- irregularly shaped insulation with a cavity and a bespoke brick faΓ§ade. Just the bricks alone, so without the labour, is going to cost about the same as the finished plaster. In the long term brick and a sloped roof should require less frequent renovations, but I doubt that it would ever offset the higher initial cost.

[–] skibidi@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (3 children)

You can stick a fancy facade on basically any wall construction to make it look like an old-half timbered style, or brick, or stone, etc.

But trying to actually build an old brick/stone/plaster and timber monstrosity today wouldn't be smart. Insulation, moisture control, energy efficiency, and even creature comforts like wifi signal penetration are all miles better with newer construction methods.

I agree the architecture is boring, but again, it doesn't have to look this way. However, I think most people would rather have the soulless gray box than have uncontrollable mold spreading across their walls unless they leave the windows open in winter.

[–] blackbirdbiryani@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago

In Australia, you can get the soulless grey box with shit insulation and mold problems, so it's twice as good! /s

Exactly, the vernacular of the past was based on the materials that were available and practical at the time, for the demands of the time. Whatever came out was just the practical way to build under these conditions, not necessarily a choice.

In that sense, the rectangular box IS the vernacular of our time. Practical materials that fulfill the needs people have to present-day homes. Straight walls, insulation, energy efficiency. Of course you can plaster on a fake facade but it's a choice, not a consequence.

[–] ulterno@programming.dev 3 points 1 day ago

uncontrollable mold spreading across their walls unless they leave the windows open in winter

You mean soulful mold?

[–] megrania@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yep, I've lived in old buildings most of my life (very german predilection for the "Altbau" I guess) and I'm not sure whether people are aware how much energy it costs.

I love 3.5m ceilings and 2.5m high windows, I love thick walls made from solid stone, that's how I grew up, in a rented place in a wonderful turn-of the century building. ... it's not even expensive to rent compared to where I live now. But heating alone costs enough that it could pay for a single room somewhere else. And given that the walls are thick, but not insulated, you have to make sure you heat it, make sure you don't put things too close to the wall, otherwise you might have to battle moisture and moldy walls. In fact, if the windows insulate too well it might even be a drawback because the moisture can't escape, and you have to air the rooms (the very german habit of "Stoßlüften") frequently to not get mold.

The rectengular zero-energy buildings of today, you probably don't need to heat much. Friends of mine used to live in a building like that. Well insulated, three-pane windows, all that. They barely had to turn the heat on in the middle of winter. Body heat, residual heat from cooking and what not, it's practically enough to keep the place warm.

I live in the Philadelphia area and a lot of the row houses here dating to a century or more ago have absolutely beautiful brickwork, incredibly creative and interesting stuff, often on houses that these days barely sell for $100K. It would be completely impossible to duplicate this kind of thing today even with a construction budget of millions. The craftsmen who can do that kind of work are nonexistent now -- today you're lucky to find somebody who can lay bricks in a straight line.

[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Unless you build the house to last 200 years, with occasional maintenance. No drywall monstrosity will survive that long.

[–] Bleys@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is that good though? In Japan they build houses with the expectation that they’re only going to last one generation and then will be rebuilt, and the result is that housing is actually affordable because there isn’t nearly as much speculative investing in housing driving up house prices.

[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago

That's a great point. Alternative is that once you build enough housing (admittedly that would take some doing to redo everything, best bet is slow replacement) you wouldn't really need that large industry to begin with. You just have houses everywhere that are good and you build a few here or there to replace accidental damage or the slow turnover of old ones.

Idk if that's possible. Humans never did it before.

[–] megrania@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'd think it was always quite expensive to build like that, and what we see today is what survived. A lot of (european) vernacular architecture is just ... not that.

In fact I'd think the "old" houses in the comic, would need constant maintenance. Paint the wooden windows, make sure they don't distort, a new roof every 20-30 years. The places you see in a deserted italian, french or spanish village might have been uninhabited for a few decades, and are basically ruins.

[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's true. But also could be less true. With our modern tech, we could build like they did back then, but much better. If we built for longevity. But we won't.

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'm looking into insulating my 100+ year old house, and it might mean the stones on the base need to be flattened and covered up. The windows and some of the doors are now plastic, since the previous ones (that were already not the original) were water damaged, which somehow involved the indoor doors too.

[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Covering up can't be avoided unless you want to insulate on the inside. And insulating on the inside is a real pita to do right, so covering up it will be :) It's a shame to lose the old stone + brick look, but energy wise we must.

Flattening the outside might not be necessary if you've got local contractors who can do carpentry + flexible insulation solutions. See the first option for an example: https://www.eurabo.be/nl/updates/buitenmuren-isoleren-langs-buiten In Dutch because I don't know the terminology to find something like this in English.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I just love modern monochromatic architecture. Inject glass walls, metal accents, and white concrete into my veins.

[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 5 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

There could be trees, why does it have to be no trees

[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago

I would normally agree. But look at those pictures. We can't go against the pictures. What if a tree falls on it and breaks it

[–] danekrae@lemmy.world 157 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

"Guess you guys aren't ready for that yet, but your cat's are gonna love it."

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[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 118 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (12 children)

You can blame this guy: Adolf Loos, at least in part.

Major influence behind Modernism. He was mainly reacting against Art Nouveau which he was a staunch critic of.

"The evolution of culture marches with the elimination of ornament from useful objects" is the core theme of his essay "Ornamentation and Crime" .

Basically,

  1. ornamentation causes buildings and useful objects to go out of style.

  2. Things that go out of style require materials and manpower to update.

  3. It is the moral imperative of the designer to make useful things, things that need to be redone are less useful and are wasteful.

  4. Therefore it is the moral imperative of the designer to remove all ornamentation from design.

He saw ornamentation as "degenerate" and equated ornamentlessnes with moral and intellectual development. He also made it a race thing. He used the example of people from Papua New Guinea having tattoos. Paraphrasing: "these primitive savages ornament themselves with tattoos, we enlightened europeans don't. We smart, they dumb. Therefore ornament = dumb bad, no ornament = good smart. See?"

He was a major inspiration behind the modernist movement. It helped that unadorned buildings are cheaper and easier to construct - especially with the advent of cheap glass and steel construction. So you end up with this sort of soulless architecture that gives no sense of time or place - that tells you nothing about its purpose or the people who built/use it.

[–] danekrae@lemmy.world 49 points 2 days ago

He was mainly reacting against Art Nouveau which he was a staunch critic of.

"I think that thing is ugly, so I'm gonna make something even uglier!"

[–] mobyduck648@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

The popularisation of the idea that ornament is inherently bad genuinely did far more damage to the visual environment of the UK than the Luftwaffe managed with years of strategic bombing in my view.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 32 points 2 days ago (23 children)

We can pretend he's the main influence, whilst ignoring the fact that most people prefer square even walls for aesthetic, functional, and - most of all - cost purposes.

I do agree we could do better w.r.t to colour, and millenial grey needs to go. But don't knock the rectangle. Rectangle is good. Rectangle is steady. You can plan on rectangle.

millenial grey

There's nothing in the construction world that I hate more than the fake gray wood interlocking vinyl floor planks that are in every house now. I guess they're supposed to be the color of wood on old barns or fences, but I've never seen real wood of that color on a floor anywhere. I bought my house a couple of years ago and it had that type of fake flooring in the living room. I deliberately left it uncovered during the renovations, assuming that it would be trashed which would force me to replace it with something I actually like -- no such luck, that stuff is actually pretty indestructable, unfortunately.

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[–] Bristlecone@lemmy.world 48 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If it got more people into houses I wouldn't give a shit, but sadly, its shitty in both ways

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

There are a lot of high density housing being built in my city after some planning rule changes to enable it.

It's unpopular to say the least.

I'm just happy that it means more people get to live in a house.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's unpopular to say the least.

Fuck the NiMBYs

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[–] ulterno@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

As long as the house has at least 1 window each on opposing sides, and at least 2 metres of spacing between the next plot margin, I'd give it a pass.
I'm writing this from an area where I won't find such a place even if I were to pay 1/3 of my salary as rent.

[–] solarspark@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

I am a unique and special snowflake.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 74 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

Funny enough 1921 is when all the houses from the second half of the comic started.

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[–] Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Modern boxy homes would be pretty great if their roofs are also designed to be used as a patio area with awnings or solar panels. It just seems like a waste otherwise.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago (6 children)

People sure are opinionated about architecture... I mean I think both are nice. Although the modern designs do tend to all look the same, which isn't ideal

My beef with modern home architecture (the stuff in the US, mainly) is not that it's different or modern, but that it's so fucking fake in its fundamental elements. Vinyl siding stamped to look like old-fashioned wood siding but obviously isn't because of the vertical seams and the bumps; double-paned vinyl windows with glazing dividers emulating old-fashioned casement windows that don't even look three-dimensional; shutters that obviously can't close; panel doors made from one block of essentially cardboard etc. etc.

[–] hraegsvelmir@ani.social 8 points 1 day ago

I don't really have any strong opinions on architecture, but I'll still get mad in this instance taking it as a proxy for the French state's efforts to wipe out regional culture throughout its history. You have tons of regional languages, with their own rich cultures and histories, and France has systematically done its best to beat them out of existence. BrΓ©ton, Gascon, Picard, Occitane and Corsican, amongst many others, are all considered to be either definitely or severely endangered, according to their wikipedia articles. Even those whose wiki page doesn't mention this, like Alsatian, still generally mention the speakers tending to be predominantly older adults, with fewer and fewer young people learning the language. I've seen stuff about there being positive results with revitalization efforts and bilingual schooling for some of them, but it gets me bummed out and angry to think it might be too little, too late, and all in the name of some misguided nation building policies.

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[–] bstix@feddit.dk 26 points 2 days ago

A wonderful thing is the regional differences in door casing styles.

Every house everywhere have doors and all of them have trims (door casing), but they're not the same.

In a lot of old houses/apartments, these are rarely changed. They suck to change because you'll probably want the same for all the doors in the house or it looks weird. So if you want to change/repair just one, you'd want the same profile again and that's not available, because every single carpenter had their own design back in the pre-1950s where stuff like this wasn't mass produced, but made by the carpenter. So you either don't change it or you get the same again. The design caries over either way.

In old large cities like Copenhagen where they obviously had several carpenters, you can tell to this day which neighborhood you're in by looking at the door trims if you know how they look.

These days the new ones are all just flat. No profile. Sure, it makes it easier to maintain, but its a real loss in my opinion.

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