299
“This Is a Collapse of the Democratic Party”: Ralph Nader on Roots of Trump’s Win Over Harris
(www.democracynow.org)
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
299 points (93.8% liked)
News
23297 readers
4471 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Looking purely at vote counts, he isn't wrong. Trump lost about 3 million votes compared to 2020, whereas the Dems lost 15 million. There's certainly a lot of blame to lay at the feet of "both sides bad" people who didn't vote, but either way that's catastrophically bad turnout for the Dems.
No. Absolutely not.
The Democrats and Republicans have spent 40 years, but more importantly, the last six months making it very clear that losing a badly-needed day's pay for a worker isn't worth the time it takes to vote. (Unless you were in Missouri with the $15 minimum wage on the ballot.)
Democrats are the reason that Democrats lose.
It's not about right or wrong, it's about the person weighing in.
I don't want to hear what Jill Stein has to say about it either. Fuck both of them.
And you people downvoting: would you want to hear Newt Gingrich's take? Even if this is what he said?
You should be saying: "Fuck Kamala Harris"
The Dems knew from day one that the economy was the most important issue to voters, because the vast majority of them are working 2-3 jobs just to barely make ends meet.
So what did they do? They ran a clearly brain-damaged candidate, and when he imploded on live national TV, they subbed in Harris, who spent two months just telling people suffering to be joyful, as if it weren't only condescending, but terribly bad policy and campaign strategy. Here in Missouri the $15 minimum wage passed overwhelmingly, but Harris decided to cosplay as a moderate Republican and talk about tax cuts that no one actually thought she'd follow through with anyway, because they've spent the last four years being ignored by Joe Biden.
And they kept harping on Trump's weirdness, as if they haven't already observed that voters do not care how weird he is.
Jill Stein and Ralph Nader didn't make these crappy political decisions.
The Dems did.
Kamala Harris would not even be an issue if Nader hadn't spoiled the 2000 election.
Because Gore would have been president and everything would have been different.
So no, fuck Ralph Nader.
And if Adam didn't eat the apple, we'd all be lounging naked in paradise.
So you're comparing something that literally happened within the lifetime of most people here with something that's totally fictional?
I thought we were reminiscing about ancient history
Gore lost because George Bush's brother, Jeb, invalidated a bunch of ballots and stopped a recount as governor of Florida.
Besides that, this argument is absurd as it would be just as valid to say that Gore spoiled the election for Nader and if Gore hadn't run, Nader would have been elected president instead of George W.
Quit trying to externalize the blame for the actions of the party leadership. These faults should have been clear to you in 2016 when they handed the White House to Trump, and again in 2020 when their candidate only narrowly defeated Trump (especially at a time when Trump had already wrecked the economy and COVID was skyrocketing and this was fresh on everyone's mind).
You seem to keep insisting that everyone else needs to adjust to meet you in backing candidates that keep losing when maybe you should be the one adjusting to meet others. Sliding further and further right isn't a winning strategy for Dems and that should be quite obvious by now.
Gore lost by few enough votes that there are a multitude of people who could have acted differently to produce a win. You can pick and choose who you want to blame and everyone is right.
That's a logical fallacy called an Ad Hominem. Where you don't argue against an idea, instead attack the person voicing it.
You're opinion of a person, doesn't mean anything to their argument. It actually works against finding truth and solutions.
So then yes, you would like to know what Newt Gingrich's take is as long as it is a valid argument?
You don't think that maybe some people don't deserve attention in the first place?
Good ideas deserve attention. It doesn't matter where they come from.
Your idea here isn't a good one, and no longer has mine.
No one has a right to media attention just because they have a good idea. I assume if a serial killer had a good idea, you wouldn't want it on all the front pages. Maybe let them tell someone else and have that person bring it up if it's such a good idea.
Who said the person deserves attention? Even a right to it?
I didn't.
Okay, well then I stand by my point. Ralph Nader doesn't deserve attention on election issues no matter what good ideas he has. If they're good enough ideas, he has plenty of media connections he can tell them to.
Then engage in the discussion at hand, rather than trying to derail it.
You do not get to dictate how or why I post until you become a mod. If you don't like what I have to say, you can either block me or not respond. Ordering me to do what you want isn't going to work.
Not a dictate. Just a suggestion if you're interested in being constructive. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
I think that if you're looking at the Presidential race in particular, you probably want to look specifically at turnout in swing states, where the vote could have been realistically shifted.
Probably a lot of post-mortems happening. I want to see some material from Five Thirty Eight on what shifts happened from 2020. In the runup to the election, for example, I remember reading that young non-college-educated male blacks polled had swung dramatically more Republican between 2020 and 2024. That suggests that division around education is becoming more-important along party lines. A majority was still voting Democrat, but the shift was large, something crazy, like twenty percentage points. I remember reading another article in the runup that Trump had gained slightly among females, also kind of a surprise to me. Now that we've got voting data, though, we can look at county level stuff and try to get an idea of which demographics actually shifted their votes and how.