this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2026
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    [–] grue@lemmy.world 10 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (3 children)

    No it doesn't.

    "Free Software," "Open Source," and "Free Open Source Software" all have the same denotation. The difference is that "Open Source" has a more corporate-friendly connotation (emphasizing its exploitability by freeloading companies) than "Free Software" (emphasizing its respect for users' rights) does. "Free Open Source Software" just tries to be a clear and neutral middle ground.

    Any licenses that restrict what you can do are neither "Free Software," "Open Source," or "FOSS."

    [–] SpongyAneurysm@feddit.org 7 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

    I fear there's a bit of wishful thinking interspersed here.

    'Open Source' is a term, that means, that the Source code is accessible, but tells you nothing about the liberties that the license grants. There are plenty of proprietary projects that are Open Source in that sense, but with non-free licensing. That might not be how the term was initially used, but that's just how it is now.

    The term FOSS exists specifically to distinguish it from that.

    [–] grue@lemmy.world -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

    'Open Source' is a term, that means, that the Source code is accessible, but tells you nothing about the liberties that the license grants.

    No it isn't. "Open Source" is a term coined by the Open Source Initiative, and they control its definition. Every license that counts as "Open Source" according to OSI also counts as Free Software according to the Free Software Foundation.

    You're getting it confused with bullshit like "shared source" or "source available," which are propagandistic terms designed to confuse people about proprietary software being freer than it actually is.

    [–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml -1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

    Every license that counts as “Open Source” according to OSI also counts as Free Software according to the Free Software Foundation.

    Who is not authoritative on the issue. I might agree with the spirit of your comment, but I think it messes up an "ought to" with an "is a". Let's replay this: Every open source license should be a copyleft license. Sure! It should. Like all property should belong to the community.

    But as it is right now, the creator has intellectual property on the code. They may choose to reserve none or some rights on it. But as long as F/L/OSS is defined within the framework of intellectual property, it is not true that "by definition every open source license is a copyleft license". This is a fallacy.

    (Sorry I wouldn't bother to use the same terms you used. I mean the same things though.)

    [–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

    Who is not authoritative on the issue.

    Except they are, because they're the ones who coined the term.

    But as it is right now, the creator has intellectual property on the code.

    The second you use the term "intellectual property[sic]," it tells me you either don't understand what you're talking about well enough to discuss it with precision, or you're fatally biased about the issue...

    They may choose to reserve none or some rights on it. But as long as F/L/OSS is defined within the framework of intellectual property, it is not true that “by definition every open source license is a copyleft license”. This is a fallacy.

    ...and the rest of your paragraph confirms your lack of understanding, because the notion that I wrote anything resembling “by definition every open source license is a copyleft license” is nonsense.

    (Sorry I wouldn’t bother to use the same terms you used. I mean the same things though.)

    Words have meanings. You don't get to just change them and pretend they mean the same things when they don't!

    [–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

    the notion that I wrote anything resembling “by definition every open source license is a copyleft license” is nonsense

    Let's see.

    “Open Source” is a term coined by the Open Source Initiative, and they control its definition. Every license that counts as “Open Source” according to OSI also counts as Free Software according to the Free Software Foundation.

    This is the same thing. To quote someone very important:

    Words have meanings. You don’t get to just change them and pretend they mean the same things when they don’t!

    [–] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

    You do realize that "copyleft" isn't the same thing as those other terms, right? "Open Source" or "Free Software" licenses can be "copyleft," but they can also be "permissive."

    That's what was nonsense about your "by definition every open source license is a copyleft license" statement. All copyleft is open source, but not all open source is copyleft.

    [–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 0 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

    Thanks for manspreading this point for me. You see in this earlier comment (before I had the displeasure of meeting you), I demonstrate knowledge of this fact. Therefore, removed my removed.

    [–] SpongyAneurysm@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago

    Someone trying to argue the correct term for something, but than grossly misusing the term 'manspreading' is exactly my kind of humor.

    [–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 15 hours ago

    So you have no excuse to be wrong, and are therefore trolling on purpose. Removed your own damn removed!

    [–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 0 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

    Any licenses that restrict what you can do are neither

    I am not so sure. What about CC-BY-SA? Open source, share-alike, but restricts modifying the code. More broadly, from the start CC licenses were described as "Some rights reserved".

    Libre software restricts people from sharing code under another closed license. So I think that your statement is not correct either. FLOSS licenses can very much restrict what you can do, and do so very regularly.

    [–] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

    What about CC-BY-SA? Open source, share-alike, but restricts modifying the code.

    What? That's not true at all. You can make derivative works with CC-BY-SA.

    Edit: your comment was wrong in multiple ways, and I only addressed one before replying.

    In addition to simply not saying what you claimed it says, CC-BY-SA is also not, in fact, "Open Source" because it doesn't appear on the list of OSI-approved Open Source licenses. That means OSI either rejected it or didn't evaluate it at all. (I assume the latter, in this case, because CC-BY-SA isn't even intended for software source code to begin with!)

    Libre software restricts people from sharing code under another closed license.

    No, copyright law itself restricts people from sharing code. "Open Source" or "Free Software" licenses relax those restrictions. Restrictions are never added by the license, only conditions limiting when they may be relaxed.

    [–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 0 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

    You can make derivative works with CC-BY-SA.

    No.

    No, copyright law itself restricts people from sharing code. “Open Source” or “Free Software” licenses relax those restrictions. Restrictions are never added by the license, only conditions limiting when they may be relaxed.

    This is exactly why copyleft licenses are now implemented within the context of intellectual property law. You can't have a socialist biodome specifically for code.

    CC-BY-SA is also not, in fact, “Open Source” because it doesn’t appear on the list of OSI-approved Open Source licenses.

    Any license that prohibits modification will do. As any license that prohibits redistribution under a closed license will also do.

    EDIT: "do" = to refute your statement, from which you just so vehemently distanced yourself, lmao

    [–] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

    You can make derivative works with CC-BY-SA.

    No.

    The rest of your word salad isn't even worth responding to.

    [–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 0 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

    Well, my bad. I meant CC-BY-ND.

    The rest of your word salad isn’t even worth responding to.

    Now go refute my other arguments, which totally refute your fallacious statement that open source entails copyleft because Richard Stoolman wants it that way. Let's not discuss what other things he wants his way, lol.

    [–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 15 hours ago

    Well, my bad. I meant CC-BY-ND.

    Not an open source license, so what the fuck is your point?

    Now go refute my other arguments

    Your word salad isn't coherent enough to form any sort of "argument" in the first place.