this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2026
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Repost from a little earlier because I spent too much time on my answer and I'm salty that OP deleted the thread.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 29 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Same reason Pine trees are used to celebrate a birth in the desert... Or bunnies laid eggs to celebrate his resurrection...

When Europe was converted, the only thing that matters is when asked "are you Christian?" Europeans replied "yes".

So whatever Pagans were doing, was co-opted into Christianity.

And that included not just their rituals and objects of worship, but their holy sites as well.

Past gods became saints, and often the main change to worship sites was a cross was erected in the middle.

After decades and generations went by, church officials moved in and slowly started indoctrination on the youth, and as each generation grew up, the pagans ties were slowly eroded.

After centuries, no one questions it.

It was a long game.

[–] balderdash9@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Or bunnies laid eggs to celebrate his resurrection…

Apparently the idea that Easter is appropriation of a pagan holiday is a myth. The history is a bit more complicated; here are some historians who can explain it smarter than me: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1sd7bgp/does_easter_symbology_have_pagan_roots/

Or if you prefer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q31k28_rdTg

edit: The internet will downvote what they disagree with rather than engage with the scientific literature / historical record every time. I've wasted way too much time looking into this so believe whatever you want I guess.

[–] Bahnd@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Syncretism is the term that explains this best. The Romans had a habit if not entirely crushing the beliefs of the people they conquered, they just stuck their own on top of the local beliefs and brought some of those traditions back to rome.

Fast forward a long ass time and now most everyone has a winter soltice festival.

[–] Apytele@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I came to a lot of peace with my childhood when I came to the realization that Christianity was at it's best when it was syncretist. The Christians who I was able to get along with as a kid were always the ones my parents said weren't real Christians because they "denied the divinity of Jesus" by not being trinitarian. They always spoke very poorly of the western mystery traditions and it was easy to see their viewpoint because they're both graduate degree engineers so of course it was only logical. Realistically the people they were talking shit about were the ones who actually understood the point and weren't in it to feel superior to other people. Now I have tarot cards too and it's lit.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

You can say what you want about "Páshka" or "Passover", but there's no way in Hell "Easter" isn't related to "Ēostre" (and "estrus," and "east" -- think 'rising sun' -- and spring/rebirth/fertility concepts in general). Just because a holiday may not have been appropriated from an earlier one for the Greeks or Romans, doesn't mean it wasn't appropriated from an earlier one for the Germanic peoples.

[–] bedwyr@piefed.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

At least part of Easter was a Germanic holiday with the giant bunny handing out eggs and whatever. Forget what they call it.

[–] balderdash9@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Again, I'm not a historian but there's some evidence to the contrary. The TL;DR is that Easter is a Christian holiday but secular traditions became associated with it centuries later:

"The earliest certain attestation of the Easter bunny dates to 1682, in a pamphlet titled Satyrae medicae continuatio XVIII disputatione ordinaria disquirens de ovis paschalibus ('continuation of a medical satire no. 18, enquiring in a serial disputation on the subject of Easter eggs') by G. Franck von Franckenau, published in Heidelberg,...:

In Germania Superiore, Palatinatu nostrate, Alsatia et vicinis locis, ut et in Westphalia vocantur haec ova di Hasen-Eier a fabula, qua simplicioribus et infantibus imponunt Leporem (der Oster-Hase) eiusmodi ova excludere, et in hortis in gramine, fruticetis et c. abscondere ut studiosius a pueris investigentur, cum risu et iucunditate seniorum. Et revera saepe leporum, h. e. Imprudentium nomine possunt venire, qui eiusmodi ovis exposititiis non solummodo iocos quaerunt: Siquidem saepe cum illis ovis pueri valetudinis suae magnam inveniunt iacturam; quando dein, semoto arbitro, ista iusto avidius per ingluviem ingurgitant, sine sale, butiro, aut alio condimento; ...

In Upper Germany, (my) native Palatinate, Alsatia, and neighbouring regions, as also in Westphalia, these eggs are called 'the Rabbit Eggs', because they have a custom for simple people and children that a Rabbit -- 'the Easter Rabbit' -- hides the eggs in such a manner, and conceals them in gardens in the grass, fruit trees and so on, for them to be hunted out very carefully by children, to the laughter and amusement of their elders. And in fact people can sometimes come by the name of 'rabbits', that is, fools, if they search when eggs are hidden in this way not just as a joke. In fact children often do serious damage to their health with these eggs, if their guardian is absent, if they devour them too greedily out of gluttony, without salt or butter or other condiment ...

(The pamphlet goes on about the eggs, but doesn't mention the rabbit again.)

There are claims floating around that there's an earlier reference to the Bunny dating to 1572. As pointed out to me earlier this year (offsite) by someone going under the name of 'Marvin', this is a misattribution derived from a 1933 article --

Vielleicht spielt auch schon Fischart in 'Aller Praktik Grossmutter' (1572) auf den Osterhasen an, wenn er sagt: 'Sorg nicht, dass dir der Haas vom Spiess entlauf: Haben wir nicht die Eier, so braten wir das Nest'.

Perhaps Fischart also already played on the Easter Rabbit in 'All Grandma's customs' (1572) where he says: 'Don't worry if the Rabbit escapes from the spit: if we don't have the eggs, we'll cook the nest'.

However, the 1572 source doesn't contain this line: it actually comes from Sander's Gargantua und Pantagruel vol. 3, page 420, published in 1787. How the 1933 article came to misattribute the line is beyond my knowledge.

Anyway, that means the line is nearly a century later than the actual earliest attestation. Franck von Franckenau, in 1682, remains the earliest source for the Easter Bunny.

There is incidentally no evidence for any link between rabbits and the pre-Christian English goddess Eostre, attested by Bede in the early 700s. I once thought this link was suggested by Jacob Grimm in his Deutsche Mythologie (1835), albeit purely as a speculation, but now that I look at Grimm again I don't find any such suggestion there. I'm not certain what the origin of that supposed link is.

There are various reports of alternative Easter critters in Germany up to the early 20th century (and potentially later), such as the Easter Fox and a Franconian Easter Stork. To the extent that they are legitimate, they would tend to indicate that the Easter Bunny originates in a German Easter Critter of indeterminate species, but I don't have anywhere to point for good documentation for them: I can vouch for Franck von Franckenau's Oster-Hase, I can't vouch for the other critters."

If this is true, then the order goes Easter --> secular/Germanic traditions rather than traditions --> Easter. But this is not my area of expertise and I am open to evidence that the r/AskHistorians person quoted above is wrong.

[–] bedwyr@piefed.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] balderdash9@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I am genuinely curious so I read the article and looked into its primary sources. The scientific citations actually contradict the premise of the article.

They begin by noting the earliest written connection that we have of the Easter bunny and hiding eggs:

But it is in the folk traditions of England and Germany that the figure of the hare is specifically connected to Easter. Accounts from the 1600s in Germany describe children hunting for Easter eggs hidden by the Easter hare, much as in the United States today.

Written accounts from England around the same time also mention the Easter hare, particularly in terms of traditional Easter hare hunts and the eating of hare meat at Easter.

The historians I cited earlier said as much. Then the smithsonianmag article notes a scholarly hypothesis from the novelist/linguist/mythologist Jacob Grimm:

In 1835, the folklorist Jacob Grimm, one of the famous team of the fairy tale Brothers Grimm, argued that the Easter hare was connected to a goddess he imagined would have been called “Ostara” in ancient German. He derived this name from the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, who Bede, an early medieval monk ... mentioned in 731 C.E.

The connection between the goddess and the Easter hare was speculated by brother Grimm in the 19th century and has no ancient basis. Bede never links Eostre to hares, rabbits, or any fertility symbols. See Lauritsen et al, which smithsonainmag.org cite as support of "pagan roots", explicitly noting the lack of evidence:

Easter is similar to Yule in that Bede derives the name of the Christian festival from a name for an Anglo‑Saxon month, which in turn derives from the name of a pagan goddess (Shaw 2011). Bede notes that a festival celebrating the goddess Eostre occurred in this month (approximately April) but does not suggest that this coincided with the date of the Christian festival of Easter … Nor does it specify a link between the Anglo‑Saxon goddess Eostre and rabbits or hares.

The suggestion throughout Lauristen et al is that the name Eostre, the name of the month, was pre-Christian. Similar to how "Thursday" comes from "Thor's Day" (but that doesn't mean we worship the Norse god Thor). But there is no evidence, as far as I can tell, that a pre‑Christian festival celebrating Eostre coincided with the Christian feast of the Resurrection or involved any of the animals now associated with Easter. The claim that early Christians reappropriated pagan traditions appears unsubstantiated.

[–] trailee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

Also why they celebrate the birth of Jesus around the winter solstice. Surprise, those pagan rites were all about the church this whole time!

[–] Limfjorden@feddit.dk -5 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Didn't watch the video, but clicked on the account page and all of their videos are nuts...

Pagans worshipped evergreens long before Christianity was invented.

The biggest argument that they're not pagan is "German Christians did it..." Which completely ignored they didn't start doing it as Christians, they just never stopped once they became Christian

Obviously a bunch of religious people are going to make up illogical excuses about how it's not just a ripoff.

That doesn't we listen to them anymore than Scientologists.

[–] Zirconium@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Religion for breakfast channel is nuts? How about you look at the description or just watch the video cause he does cite sources

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I mean, the first thumbnail was something about how you can become immortal thru a religion...

I didn't look much deeper than that, if someone has an article, I'll read that.

But I'm not going to watch a random YouTube video

[–] Limfjorden@feddit.dk -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You can read this if you want. It's one of the sources for the video. Religion for Breakfast is a scholar with a PHD in religous studies; hardly nuts.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

this

Well...

I know why you hide the link:

https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/12/concerning-yule.html?m=1

It's a blog that has screenshots from twitter...

None of that changes anything I've already said.

[–] Limfjorden@feddit.dk -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The reason I link that is because the other sources are books. I've provided evidence for my claims while you haven't. Since you refuse to read the evidence you are not interested in learning, only preserving your own worldview. You are not worth my time.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I’ve provided evidence for my claims while you haven’t.

Well, yeah...

If one guy told me the sun was coming up tomorrow morning, no one would ask for sources.

If one guy said tomorrow James Madison would rise from the dead and lead an army of vampires against the unicorn oppressors ....

Well. People might not just take their word.

Now, here's where I might lose you:

You don't know how fucking ridiculous and obviously wrong what you keep saying is.

You are not worth my time.

Obviously I am, or you wouldn't have hit send after typing that shit.

[–] Limfjorden@feddit.dk 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You're right that I care, otherwise I would not have made my initial comment. I apologise for being rude, I just didn't have the time to write a proper response.

The reason I commented is because I think that it's important that the discussion about what is pagan and what is not is taken with all the facts in mind. It just so happens that I watched a video where an expert explains that, although many people think so, there is in fact no evidence that Christmas trees are a pagan tradition appropriated by Christianity.

The reason I made my rude comment is that you dismiss the evidence I provide for my claim. I am very aware that people might not believe me at face value, which is why I provide evidence for my claim. I am making the, to your eyes "fucking ridiculous and wrong", claim, so to you the burden of proof is on me. I then provide proof. The reason i got frustrated is that you refuse to even engage at the evidence. At first you decice that you won't watch the video. I assume this is because you prefer to read instead, which is fair.

You take a cursory look at the channel and deem it "nuts", instead of looking into who the author is, what his credentials are and most importantly, you don't look at the sources for the video which are books and other material written by other scholars. I link the blogpost because I assume you don't care enough about this issue to read several books on the topic, and you dismiss this as well because it "has screenshots from twitter". The whole point of the blogpost is the same as my initial comment; to correct a longstanding myth, which is why it "responds" to twitter-posts. The blogpost is written scolar, although, I will admit, not an expert in early christianity like Dr. Mark Henry of Religion For Breakfast.

I am not trying to defend Christianity; I'm not even religious. All the video points out is that Christmas trees were likely a recent invention, and that we have no evidence to suggest that they were appropriated from a pagan religion.

Again, sorry for being rude in the previous comment. I hope you now understand why your behavior made me upset now, and I hope you will engage with the provided sources now. If you won't, then I stand by my original comment.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Buddy...

They literally worshipped trees..

After Christian crackdowns, the church literally ran around chopping trees down

Reverence for individual trees among the Germanic peoples is a common theme in medieval Christian denunciations of backsliding into paganism.[12][13] In some cases, such as Donar's Oak (according to legend, felled by Christian missionary Saint Boniface), these were associated with particular gods, and the association of individual trees with saints can be seen as a continuation of the tradition into modern times.[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_trees_and_groves_in_Germanic_paganism_and_mythology

Before temples, before buildings, before tents

European pagans worshipped trees. And around the winter solstice, they worshipped the trees that were "strong enough" to stay green despite winter.

What you're doing is like arguing that Christians didn't worship Jesus, which is why I've been so dismissive

The thing the people forced to convert to Christianity used to worship, was trees, and you're insisting tree worship is a Christian thing.

Edit:

And here's a list of examples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_trees_and_groves_in_Germanic_paganism_and_mythology#Germanic_paganism

You'll notice we're coming full circle, and Christians cut the trees down to build churches, and told the pagans worshipping in that church was worshipping their trees.

Then over generations boiled it down to just Christian.