this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars

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Comparison left vs right for a craftsman who doesnt know which one he should buy:

  • l/r same bed size

  • r lower bed for way easier loading/unloading

  • r less likely to crash

  • r less fuel consumption and costs

  • r less expensive to repair

  • r easy to park

  • r easy to get around in narrow places like crowded construction sites or towns

  • r not participating in road arms race

  • l You get taken serious by your fellow carbrained americans because ""trucks"" are normalized and small handy cars are ridiculed.

So unless you are a fragile piece of human, choose the right one.

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[–] TheTaj@lemmy.world 180 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I agree with the sentiment of this post, but to be fair, you can also carry 3 or 4 passengers in the left vehicle, as opposed to only one in the right.

The main problem is the US fuel economy regulations actually encourage manufacturers to build bigger trucks and SUVs so they get classified into a category that has looser fuel economy requirements.

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The extended cab version of the right truck would still tick all the boxes.

Off-road and towing capacity are probably the main feature you give up with that sort of design. Whether or not most people need that is a separate story.

[–] oatscoop@midwest.social 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

They make kei trucks in 4x4, but you do lose ground clearance.

That being said, what kind of "off road" conditions are any of the trucks really contending with?

[–] Blamemeta@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Muddy fields when parking at church or boy scouts or whatever.

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[–] YashaB@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

You are right. Still the american truck is hugely oversized, even for 5 persons and cargo. But, for the sake of the argument, imagine standing on the highway. Have a gander at the cars around you. How many people per car do you see? Exactly, 90% of the time there is exactly one person in a car. What makes the american truck an extreme waste of space an ressources, beside being a health hazard to everyone outside of the car.

Cars should get smaller, not bigger.

[–] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're mostly right. The main problem is that manufacturers chose to ignore the spirit of the US CAFE fuel economy regulations, and instead build everything bigger and bigger. That's why quarter-ton trucks grew to the size of the F150 in the year 2000 when they were quite a bit smaller before.

It's not the fault of the regulation. It is the fault of the manufacturers and to an equal extent, of consumers for preferring gigantic vehicles.

And let's not let GM off the hook for the 1990s Suburban, which began to, quite literally, dominate the roads. Those fuckers were the original huge grocery getter, and they had truly awful turning radius and blind spots. You just couldn't drive them safely or courteously if you tried. So of course everyone wanted more powerful and bigger vehicles to compete.

[–] DaleGribble88@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'm actually going to fault regulations on this one. The EPA bases fuel economy requirements on the wheelbase of the vehicle. They used to publish a range of values based every other year or so, but then changed it to a formula. The formula is non-linear, making it neigh impossible to build anything with a small wheelbase anymore. In theory, they could design a small hybrid truck, but would need an obnoxiously long bed to compensate.

I watched a YouTube video on it not terribly long ago, and iirc, a 95 Ford Ranger, if held to the current formula-based regulations, would need 60+ mpg to be produced without major penalties to the company.

The EPA either needs to reevaluate the formula, or start manually publishing the numbers with values that are actually achievable by the industry at scale. Basically, by publishing the formula, manufacturers are able to min-max their designs in all the wrong ways.

EDIT: Updated for clarity and fixed some typos

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[–] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Thanks for pointing our the real incentives which are always some bullshit about more money and less regulations - basically the reason capitalism sucks at innovation - it doesn't care about whats important and in some cases actively hates it

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[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 124 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Just gonna keep on posting this

[–] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago

This is why Pedestrian crash avoidance mitigation (PCAM) needs to be standard required by law, and will be on Californian shortly, and with California goes the world.

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[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 100 points 1 year ago (10 children)

95% of the craftsmen I know have panel vans. Easier to both organize and secure tools and materials, more overall room.

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 62 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I was the only guy at the marina showing up in a compact Nissan. Got a lot of shit for it from the raised up pickups.

Yet I always had that extra $20 for beers.

It's a mystery.

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[–] MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Yep. I'm an American tradesman and the trucks that the guys drive are way too beefy for what they actually do.

I've gotten by with small Toyota trucks, and rav 4s..much to the chagrin of the good old boys. Should have seen their face when I rolled up in a prius...till I tell em I get 50 mpg easy.

I would love a small little truck like this one in the photo.

[–] Noobg@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The most handy truck I had doing construction when I was a kid was out Mazda B2200 with the Perkins diesel. It'd go forever on no fuel and was perfect for grabbing a few tools for a quick run to a job site.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/cc-outtake/cc-outtake-1983-mazda-b2200-diesel-a-veteran-of-the-great-diesel-boom-with-a-license-built-perkins-engine/

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[–] Vub@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Willing to bet right is owned by a true worker doing real work and left is some trumpet who uses that ugly tank to drive to Walmart to buy toilet paper.

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[–] randint@feddit.nl 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Trucks the same size as the right one are the norm in East Asia. Trucks like the left one are basically non-existent. (There are trucks of the same size or bigger here, but they don't waste so much space on the passenger seats.)

[–] AlphaOmega@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (6 children)

We only have large trucks in the USA due to CAFE restrictions. Basically in order to sell a small truck in the USA , it has to have phenomenal gas mileage or the manufacturer has to pay the government fees.
The government is the cause for these stupid large trucks.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

There was also a lot of targeted ads that destroyed masculinity if you owned a car. Truck companies were claiming a truck made you more handsome, resourceful, trustworthy and all sorts of other claims that somehow made you a better person for owning a truck.

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[–] Beowulf@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

This is why I loved my Nissan d21 when I had it

This is a simillar truck compared to what I had truck

[–] kgbbot@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Why isn't that an option anymore‽ I'd absolutely love my 94 Ford ranger again, and I'm totes jelly of the old school Tacoma owners.

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[–] Robcia1220@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I get the point your trying to prove but i don’t think it’s fair to compare these 2 as they are meant for different things and also brings in the assumption that all American craftsman vehicles are 2500HD’s, which is not true.

Now I agree, people using the one on the left specifically as a daily driver is actually overkill and are not using it for what it’s supposed to be used for. The one on the left is a 2500HD. They are SUPPOSED to be used for hauling and carrying equipment. The crew cab is meant to also transport the crew that is for said equipment.

The one the right is specifically meant what appears to be lighter duty use and hauling. I agree that people should use the right tool for the job. I find the one on the right to be very practical. But for the sake of this post as a means to compare Japanese craftsman vehicles to American.

You should actually show something actually comparable. Like a ford ranger with a standard cab. Which might be about the same size and power. Maybe even the same bed size. Not something that has HD (Heavy duty) in its name.

[–] SuperApples@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only places I've seen trucks like the 2500HD are north America, Australia and Thailand. They usually have only one, or rarely two people people in them. They never have a significant load in the bed. Everywhere else uses vans and light trucks and gets along just fine..

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[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Kei trucks due have the issue of not being great to actual haul things in the mountainous areas (a tradeoff of the small engine). They make a non-kei version that has a bigger engine for situations like that.

That being said, I think if roads and such were bigger here (Japan), we'd definitely seem more American-style vehicles. Miyazaki (Ghibli) had lots of environmental themes in his works and it wasn't because people were doing a great job of taking care of the environment. I have seen American trucks driving around Tokyo (which is silly because they can't even fit down some streets) as well as sports cars and even hummers. Yeah, some are driven by foreigners, but there are still plenty of Japanese who import and drive US vehicles. The second biggest thing stopping that is the cost of getting it over here, inspected, registered, etc. Some humans just want those and want to show off their status and Japanese people are just people, after all (as much as the internet loves to pretend otherwise).

[–] Yoz@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Anything American should be avoided. Their food is full of sugar, cars are big and useless and internet companies always try to screw their users.

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[–] caseinpoint@reddthat.com 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Horses are man extenders" -Ken Barbie [The Movie]

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[–] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I agree with the idea with the exceptions of towing capacity, passenger capacity, and possibly (probably) bed weight capacity.

But if you’re one guy that doesn’t tow anything and needs to haul a few sheets of plywood, sure, it makes sense.

[–] persolb@lemmy.ml 28 points 1 year ago (9 children)

The percentage of trucks on the left I see actually doing that is functionally 0%

[–] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Oh that may be true- but if we’re talking to working craftsman and builders as opposed to “anyone buying a truck” I think it matters.

Most truck buyers don’t need one. I don’t have a truck but I do have a 3600lb pop up camper that we tow with a Honda pilot. It’s basically the exact same car as the Honda Ridgeline pickup but with a hatch instead of a bed. It’s also a kid and vacation mobile.

In my case I’m not a craftsman but still couldn’t get by with the little truck because of towing and passenger capacity, that’s all I was saying.

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[–] karpintero@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I do woodworking and have gotten by with my Subaru but occasionally need to pick up 4x8 sheets of plywood, OSB, or even drywall for the house. An electric kei truck would be perfect. I'm rooting for something like the Canoo or Telo EV truck to make it to market

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[–] mochi@lemdit.com 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Japanese one would be fun for use in New York City. LOL. Easy parking, easy to navigate double-parked clowns. It just needs a bed cover to lock down anything purchased.

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[–] Kolrami@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unlisted benefit of the one on the left is you can fit more people in it.

Unlisted benefits of the one on the right are

  1. lower center of gravity, so taking turns is easier.
  2. smaller blind spot
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[–] WhataburgerSr@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

As an American, I've written to multiple manufacturers, foreign and domestic, to bring/build the smaller Kei trucks but I have never heard any response except for Ford that basically sent a brochure for their F150 that has 'more space' for 'getting work done'. I would love these for practicality but the cost of importing a used one was MUCH higher than buying a normal truck/suv here. :(

[–] Abnorc@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Since it's become legal to import these Kei trucks and vans, I've been loving the pictures of them all over the place. I have no need to haul cargo around, but I'd definitely love one of these things if I did in the future. I just don't like that you're only allowed to buy 20-year-old vehicles like this due to import laws.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Who benefits from keeping these trucks out of american makets?

a) the consumers

b) existing auto manufacturers

Who chooses to keep these trucks out of american markets?

a) the consumers

b) the governments/lawmakers

Edit american not western.

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[–] PlaidBaron@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

My first car was an early 90s Ranger. These were the days when you could actually buy a small pickup, not whatever the hell the Ranger is now.

Now, look, it was still horrible for the enviroment like all cars. It wasnt great on gas, but compared to larger trucks in that era, it sipped fuel by comparison. But friends asked why I didnt just go for a 'real truck'.

Simple. It was big enough for anything I needed to haul. I didnt need a huge truck. It was easy to drive and I could park it anywhere, even in the city when I visited.

Now they dont even make small trucks anymore, at least not in North America. Everything is huge even though only, like, 1% of truck owners actually need something that big. And they keep getting bigger year by year. Its insane.

[–] Underwaterbob@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

Hey! I live in Korea. These things are ubiquitous. They are colloquially called "Bongos" as that was the name of an older, popular model. There are more and more electric ones on the road these days, too.

Unfortunately, you can find a few of the monstrosities on the left here these days, too, but at least very few. They've got nowhere to park them here. Haha!

[–] SeatBeeSate@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Really wish I could get my hands on one of these. The import process is so complicated it makes it barely cheaper than a domestic used truck.

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[–] dinckelman@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

One is made to show how much of an egoist you are, and the other is made to do the job. I really don't get the gigantomax trucks, and never will

[–] BeardedPip@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Having a back seat is a legit feature. Other than that, you are right on. I would love to have a real small trucks available in the US. But thanks to Country Music that is just not possible.

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