this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 36 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (4 children)

I think most commenters here are missing the point.

There is a more extreme reaction to transgender people as opposed to gay or lesbian people, because of issues like sports and bathrooms. And that hits at people's sense of injustice. For example if you have a young daughter, a lot of people will hate the idea of a person with a penis going into the women's room and being around there little girl. Or if that daughter grows up and joins a sports team, the idea of somebody who is hormonally male and thus naturally more muscular competing against your daughter is unpleasant.

Put differently, I think a lot of people we now classify as 'transphobic' don't actually have much problem with trans people themselves. Rather, with how the efforts to ensure trans people receive the full treatment of their chosen gender can affect the rest of society.

For me personally, I don't know what the answer is. I generally don't care which bathroom you use as long as you wash your hands. I have no problem with anyone presenting themselves to the world as whatever they wish, if it makes you happier than by all means. At the same time though, I don't think it's transphobic to point out that somebody who is largely or entirely biologically male will have a natural competitive advantage in the field of sports.
So while I certainly don't want to exclude anybody, I think there is at least a little justification for restricting some women's sports to those who are genetically female.

[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago

LoL at thinking Republicans don't want people with Penises in their Daughter's Restroom! Conservatives are LITERALLY making it ILLEGAL for people with Penises and Beards to use anything BUT their Daughter's Restroom!

[–] 31337@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I think I've heard there are a lot of genetically male, but born female people in sports. I wonder if the same people are against those people playing in sports.

Idk how many transphobic people just care about specific issues. There's a lot of "groomer" rhetoric, hate, and general disgust. It's easy to get people to hate what they don't understand; and a lot of media is trying their hardest to cultivate hate against trans people to create an out-group, so they can control the in-group.

[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 4 points 6 hours ago

create an out-group so they can control the in-group

That's not just the media. It's basically everyone in power. Media, politics, government, corporations... Everyone.

It applies to the Democrats too. Especially in the 2016 election, they managed to successfully make Republicans the out-group. But I believe that was hugely damaging to the country, it created a lot more division when what is really needed is unity to focus on the issues that most people can agree on.

Because here's the cold truth- there is a body of policies that probably 80% of Americans would agree on. Things like efficient government, ending government corruption, reducing corporate control over government and elections, reducing income inequality, etc.
To quote Dylan Ratigan's famous rant, the United States is being extracted. And I think most people would like to stop that extraction.
But no major candidate stands for that. Bernie did, but the DNC iced him out because their wealthy corporate donors didn't want Bernie.

And that in my opinion is why Trump won. Harris certainly didn't push any major message of radical reform, just a bunch of the usual 'help the middle class' talk. Trump may be terrifying, but he does push a message of radical reform and changing the system.
To write that off and say half the country is racist or misogynist is to avoid learning from this situation.

[–] CitricBase@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago

I think that one thing you and other centrists are missing is that any kind of regulation isn't just a regulation on trans women, it's a regulation on ALL women. It won't be just trans women that will be put in a position of constantly having their genitals checked.

Be it for bathrooms, sports, whatever, you're opening us up to a world where anyone that fancies themselves an authority will feel empowered to sexually assault any women they want. That's what's at stake here. This is a women's issue, not just a trans issue. Hell, even men will end up getting harassed in bathrooms.

Meanwhile, actual trans people are going to by and large steer clear of segregated contact sports like they've always done, feeling the pain of exclusion and marginalization while deserving none of it.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world -1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't think anyone really cares about sports or bathrooms when it comes down to it It's all about the patriarchy. Not a single person I've met has mentioned a woman who became a man going into a men's restroom as a problem. Or them entering mens sports outside of the dimly vieled "oh well they could get hurt and a man needs to protect them from making their own decisions"

It all comes back to people thinking men have to take care of women because they can't take care of themselves without assistance.

It is a reflection of how weak the people who think such are. And projecting and trying to control others lives because they don't believe they can take care of themselves.

If you believe in people having freedom, stop trying to fucking chain them to your ideals. (Not aimed at you specifically)

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

There is no patriarchy involved though? Even women actively campaign against trans male participation in women sports.

Just take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/i39VHDmawtw

There are no men involved. Just women, so your argument doesn't track

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 2 points 58 minutes ago* (last edited 57 minutes ago)

Yes, women can be victims of patriarchy brainwashing.

There are working people who voted for the capitalist party.

Same shit.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

A YouTube video of Donald Trump talking on Fox News is your evidence that no men are invoved in having something against trans people. That tracks

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

🤨. Are you being intentionally obtuse or what?

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Not at all. Thats the subject of the thread. Why are people, mainly conservatives, against trans people. And you posted a link to a White Male Conservative on a Conservative platform speaking against some stupid shit that doesn't matter, and saying men aren't involved.

The NCAA is a business. If you believe in a free market, then don't make laws to dictate their rules. If people actually care they'll stop buying that product and someone will start a new league with different rules and people can participate there.

If anything, do the country a favor and ban official sports teams from the education system. And people can join leagues outside of the college and it will help get education better suited. Scholarships should be for educating future minds to create a better future, not wasted on someone who isnt there for an education. The amount of corruption in schools do to sports in way to high.

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world -1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Bro hates Trump so much that he didn't watch past the first 5 seconds💀.

I'm not even going to bother reading what else you typed. You made the argument that the reason people are against trans people is majorly due to the patriarchy, and i linked to an example of a female volleyball team refusing to play a trans team as a direct rebuttal to that point. A rebuttal you would've understood if you had gotten over your Trump hate and low attention span to watch the entire video.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

"I'm not even going to bother reading what else you typed"

Proceeds to say I have a short attention span. Yeah there is no way I'm sitting through anything that Fox News broadcasts.

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

That's funny. Good luck buddy

[–] infinite_ass@leminal.space 3 points 5 hours ago

Rural IL here. Full of conservatives.

Nobody here cares if you are trans. Couldn't care less.

Never met a school church shooter either.

[–] inv3r510n@lemmy.world 15 points 8 hours ago (8 children)

Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.

In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.

Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.

[–] graphene@lemm.ee 2 points 48 minutes ago

Yes! Screw the patriarchy

[–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 4 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Meh, I don't know if it's strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it's probably more "just" a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don't like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I'm just speculating, here.

I can also see the sexual panic aspect.

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

That's cuz it isn't hierarchy, it's tradition. People have a hard time warming up to things that are very different from the norm.

[–] GiveOver@feddit.uk 8 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they're the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.

[–] inv3r510n@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.

(You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)

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[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 26 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

They’re an easy minority to scapegoat. In the US they make up between 0.5% and 1.6% of the population. A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia). They’re just people trying to find their place in the world and live their lives, same as most of us.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 2 points 50 minutes ago

A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia).

I find that disgusting and totally incorrect, but actually I would be fine if that's what they thought and that's where they stopped.

But they want to pass laws telling other people how they have to behave, and how they have to do things.

The most unamerican and unpatriotic, anti-freedom thing that I can possibly think of, is people passing laws to define something as intimate and personal as gender identity and family planning. Like can't they just fuck off and let people be how they want?

It's extremely weird. And these fucking bigots think because they won the election they're not weird anymore, but most of the country did not vote. These people are still weird as fuck. If everyone voted they would get crushed and laughed out of town.

[–] shasta@lemm.ee 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Most conservatives I know think it's dangerous to entertain trans ideas in children. They say kids don't know what gender really means because they haven't experienced puberty yet but the most effective time to use hormone blockers is before puberty. So they feel like it's the parents who are encouraging use of hormone therapy for their kids because the parents are brainwashed by left media, and essentially committing child abuse.

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

To them I say:

  • If I'm old enough to be disfigured by puberty, I'm old enough for HRT.
  • A trans child is a blessing, deserving of the choice to avoid a puberty they are telling you they do not want.
[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Except for the fact that puberty is an actual thing that occurs without outside influence. HRT isn't

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (2 children)

Disclaimer: the obligation should not fall on a marginalized person to educate those ignorant. As such, when i have patiently done so, and I get met with "UH ACTUALLY DEBATE ME BRO", I meet their bad faith and pseudoscience with "ok nazi, get blocked". First they came for the trans and the disabled, THEN the socialists and trade unionists. I am just fine being indiscriminate with those who prove themselves to be intolerant. Protect yr energy fam.

The reply: That's like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure supression medication

HRT is no different than any other medical intervention that allows a person to have a better quality of life by influencing the already existing systems of hormones and neurotransmitters for the given conditions/issues/wellbeing.

What's more, in the event that the human being making the choice with their doctor to use hormone blockers changes their mind, puberty resumes AND compensates such that the overall outcome is near-entirely unchanged compared to if had they not used blockers. (And are much less likely to self-harm or take their own life overall)

The misinformation about trans kids and puberty is honestly audacious, such that anyone who actually cares about Trans People's safety, well being and happiness would recognize such if they so much as scratch at the surface of current medical knowledge.

Trans people are not your science experiment.

One's medical choices are noone's business but that human being and their doctor. Parental ownership over children is quite a flawed institution when many parents are absentee, and that's before you figure in the lack of educaction about, misinformation about, and outright internalized bigotry for trans people -- which many parents fail their children by not confronting, unpacking...but instead making the problem of the small human being who has no legal standing in our rancidly unjust systems. This society believes itself more civilized than barbarians or cro-magnons or marauding vikings or australopithecus...which only multiplies it's vicious indifferent violent tendencies.

[–] NotBillMurray@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

"If God had wanted you to regulate your glucose levels he wouldn't have given you type 1 diabetes. Now give me your goddam insulin!"

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

That's like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure suppression medication

Google false equivalency. 1.2% of people experience epilepsy. 100% of people experience puberty. Epilepsy requires intervention BECAUSE it isn't normal. So my argument still tracks.

Also, just because someone doesn't like an experience doesn't necessarily mean that it should not occur. People don't like getting their wisdom teeth removed but it's a process that must take place. And this is especially true with life changing decisions like HRT. Putting a decision so monumental into the hands of an individual still trying to figure out what career path they would like to take is borderline insane.

Also, I'm going to need some sources on the effects of HRT being easily reversed after treatment stops, because there is a point at which this procedure becomes somewhat permanent. Take for example the case of Chloe Cole who I'm pretty sure you've heard of.

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 hours ago

"Normal"

Okay nazi. Ez block.

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