this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
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Protective order poses dilemma for Tanya Chutkan as Trump could use it to falsely attack the criminal case as political

A federal judge is expected to consider on Monday whether to impose a limited gag order on Donald Trump in the criminal case over his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election, potentially restricting what he can say about potential trial witnesses and prosecutors.

The decision for US district judge Tanya Chutkan at the hearing, scheduled for 10am in Washington, comes with unique challenges given the potential for Trump to test the limits of a protective order or even flout it outright – opening the explosive sanctions question of whether to jail him in response.

Since Trump was charged in August with conspiring to obstruct the peaceful transfer of power, prosecutors have complained in court filings that Trump has made dozens of prejudicial statements that could intimidate people from testifying against him at trial and poison the jury pool.

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[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Wait. They reluctant to sanction him in-case he ignores them and they have to decide whether to jail him?

[–] nucleative@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is probably a lot of truth to this. Nobody wants to be in the middle of whatever would become of that situation.

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At this point, it does not matter what the court does. There will be violence. It's just a matter of when, and to what degree. Postponing that only makes the inevitable violence worse.

[–] Wilibus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Worse and somebody else's fault.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Every judge in the country would likely be shitting themselves at the prospect of being the one to cross the Rubicon of imprisoning a former president and current presidential candidate

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I think jail is less likely than a fine.

[–] bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A gag order would not be a good thing, this cretin keeps confessing to crimes in public, don't stop him.

[–] scratchee@feddit.uk 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Otoh, if they tell him to keep quiet and he doesn’t (is he even capable of shutting up? His own lawyers have never stopped him flapping his jaw so far), that makes things much easier: contempt of court is a simple matter to resolve.

[–] bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Caveat that I'm not American, but wouldn't that be spun as a free speech violation?

[–] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

https://law.yale.edu/mfia/case-disclosed/when-silence-isnt-golden-how-gag-orders-can-evade-first-amendment-protections

This article is a good overview, but essentially, gag orders are seen as a way to deal with an inherent conflict between the right to free speech and the right to a fair trial, and a judge's need to ensure a fair trial is seen as more important than a temporary restriction of free speech.

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@BraveSirZaphod nailed it, but I wanted to add: Free speech is not unlimited, and it never has been. There are all sorts of classes of speech which rightly result in civil or criminal penalties. This notion that, when there is a conflict between rights, "free speech" always wins, is simply false.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What you said is correct, but just to elaborate:

The courts have established very specific categories where speech can be punished and/or restricted, including things like defamation, false advertising, and limited gag orders.

At the same time, they have made it nearly impossible to establish new categories of speech restriction. That's why courts uniformly reject arguments along the lines of "We have already restricted X speech, therefore free speech is not absolute, therefore we can now restrict Y speech".

[–] scratchee@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

Neither am I, but yes, probably it would be spun that way.

Possibly I was voicing my wish for a karmic result, rather than a politically pragmatic decision.

[–] Cheradenine@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

The gag order would be to keep him from unleashing his sycophants on the Judge, jury, and potential witnesses to sway them, or prevent their testimony.

[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 8 points 1 year ago

So jail time then.

[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

It looks like the order was narrowly crafted, but I'd be willing to bet that Trump still violates it by the end of the week.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Hasn't there already been a court gag order that he's already completely ignored?