These guys look like the sort of person who will spend the rest of their life bragging about this hoping it will help them get laid and not realizing it's why they can't
this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2025
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People should be careful in what they believe and trust. Musk created a belief long ago.
Imagine being such massive pieces of shit so young.
Why would that be hard to imagine?
Their brains literally aren't fully formed yet. And the prefeontal cortex is the last to develop.
Younger people will always trend towards "anti establishment" because of it, which makes a political landscape incredibly dangerous when the only two options only care about the wealthy.
The best way to prevent fascism is a pro worker socially progressive party.
Neoliberals stole that from us, then made America play Russian roulette 3x in a row with trump as the gun, and we lost twice.
You need to follow @garwboy@ohai.social
Start here: https://ohai.social/@Garwboy/113944647175536159
Your brain works fine when you're under 25 (no matter how 'inconvenient' this fact may be)
In-lieu of the young guys working on Musk's behalf, the old "Your brain isn't fully developed until your 25 claim" has emerged yet again
Here's why it's BS
Thank you. If we deny 24 year olds agency we're just stunting them. At a certain point inability to make mistakes just prevents growth. Little kids need to learn that physics doesn't care that it hurt them. Teenagers need to relearn that lesson alongside lessons of how to interact among their peers and tired hold their burgeoning freedom. People in their early 20s need the full freedom of adults who can suffer long term consequences because even if they still had maturing to do that's part of it. Rather than denying them agency maybe we should be building safety nets and saying "hey I get it I did stupid shit in my early 20s too", but also those should extend to all ages because I'm still doing stupid shit in my 30s and I don't expect to ever look back 5-10 years back and think I would make all the same choices.
So I agree it shouldn't be used as an excuse, but in a perfect world it would definitely be grounds for diminished responsibility. If your brain hasn't fully developed its decision making centre then you aren't on a level playing field with those whose have. And it's a fact that full development of the prefontal cortex doesn't occur until mid to late twenties. They're just not at the you-ought-to-know-better endgame, neurologically.
No, it's not a fact. That's the whole point.
So what kind of source would you accept?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-021-01137-9
Although neurons of the PFC are generated before birth, the differentiation of its neurons and development of synaptic connections in humans extend to the 3rd decade of life.
The development and maturation of the prefrontal cortex occurs primarily during adolescence and is fully accomplished at the age of 25 years.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know
The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s.
It seems to me that there is a scientific consensus on the subject.
Maybe read the link I posted? All the research on "25 years" stems from that being the cutoff year. The same developments continue throughout life.
I did. But that link is just opinion. The studies are real science. The claim that all the research stems from it being the cutoff year is unsupported by the article in the link, which, again, is one person's opinion. Weighted against the consensus of medical science, it's just not very convincing to me.
No, you didn't.
Why do people insist otherwise2? Unclear. But it’s not based on any particular scientific study or claim. At best, it seems to be a corruption/misunderstanding of a few older studies into brain development, ones which mentioned, or only used subjects under the age of, 25.
... and those statements in that neuroscientist's "opinion" are linked to sources. If you click on those, you'll end up at this article which cites scholars and references the studies where people got this myth from:
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
Enjoy learning something new with your ever changing brain.
I did.
That Slate article argues that there's nothing special about the age of 25, not that brains are still in development at that age.
If you can't find a scholarly, reliable source for your claim that our brains are fully developed at 25, then I'm afraid you're not going to convince me. The reason for that is this: I'm not hubristic enough to believe I know better than the field of neuroscience, and I'm not credulous enough to believe one person's opinion that they do.
Nothing you have shown me contradicts the fact that the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed in people in their early twenties. In fact your latest source repeats the claim multiple times.
for your claim that our brains are fully developed at 25
That's the opposite of my claim. The claim is that there's no such thing as "fully developed". Development is continous throughout our whole lives. There's no "line" at 25. You could just as well use 20 or 30. Or 5. Or 50.
I know better than the field of neuroscience
Your issue is that you believe that the field of neuroscience claims something it doesn't. You've been given plenty of sources with quotes from neuroscientists on exactly how that myth came to be.
You still choose to believe the myth.
for your claim that our brains are fully developed at 25
That's the opposite of my claim. The claim is that there's no such thing as "fully developed". Development is continous throughout our whole lives. There's no "line" at 25. You could just as well use 20 or 30. Or 5. Or 50.
I know better than the field of neuroscience
Your issue is that you believe that the field of neuroscience claims something it doesn't. You've been given plenty of sources with quotes from neuroscientists on exactly how that myth came to be.
You still choose to believe the myth.
I choose to believe the consensus. It's getting tiring saying the same thing.
You're sources are junk, I'm afraid. They are magazine articles written to excite readers rather than get at the truth. I'm finding it hard to explain this to you without sounding patronising so maybe you should educate yourself on the veracity of source types.
So your claim is that there's no "fully developed"? That then does not support your original assertion that we shouldn't go easier on people who are younger for making bad decisions. They remain significantly less developed than their mature counterparts, whether or not someone in their 40s still has the potential for development (of course they do). Neural plasticity doesn't suddenly 'switch off, but it does appear to peak and fall quite quickly in the late twenties (of course, this is not an iron rule: everyone is different). I can source this claim with any number of studies if you like.
I'm sorry I feel I picked on you a bit, really I just wanted a dialogue. I've seen this notion going round that "our brains not being fully developed until after 25 has been debunked" and I've been meaning to read into it for a while to see if it's true. I'm going to keep looking at it, but I don't see any evidence that scientific understanding of prefrontal development has changed. I'm a scientist by education so I am perfectly capable of charging my mind if I believe there is evidence to do so. In fact I find that process thrilling and it's literally one of the reasons I get out of bed in the morning. I'm not stubborn or dogmatic in the slightest. But I am hard to convince. Sorry about that.
You believe there to be a consensus that doesn't exist. That's the point the neuroscientists make in the links I've given you.
Here's a recent paper that could be used to claim it's 20, not 25, if you want to draw a line: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42540-8
There is plenty of evidence for consensus. Medical institutions and departments national and international all claim that brain maturity is not reached until the mid to late twenties. Google "prefrontal cortex development age". There very much is a consensus, unless we are using different meanings for the word "consensus". Or perhaps we're not talking about the same fact that there's consensus over. If course there's no consensus on the exact age, and that's all the articles were saying, but that has no bearing on the fact that development doesn't peak and fall until the twenties.
... yeah about that "sources" thing you mentioned. Those would not belong to "scientific consensus". Neuroscientists claiming there is no such consensus however are valid sources, papers showing something else than the claimed consensus do too.
No, because down that road of argument lies the validation of antivax views.
hahahaha no, most definitely not :D
Anyway, it's pretty clear you have some other reason than science behind not accepting you're in the wrong here. The Nature study with its very clear graphs should be enough when it comes to science papers and there are numerous neuroscientists quoted in the other links I've given. You seem to believe "Slate" becomes the source when they quote one, but that's not how sourcing works.
You haven't given me a source other than Slate.
And look, if you can't see how that argument generalises to antivax acceptance then you are part of the problem frankly.
I'm going to stop here because you're dug in, and starting to project ad hominems.
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Exactly how I expected them to look tbh. Just generic looking kids.
They aren't kids. They're adults that have made their decision and must deal with the blowback from the public.
"adult" is just a word. 19 year olds are... barely adult, by my definition. I started feeling more like an adult around 30, if I'm honest. That's when my brain was like, alright, maybe I'm responsible, confident, and settled enough to have kids of my own. To take real responsibility.
Old creepy rich dudes have been exploiting young men for millennia, nothing new.
Peter Thiel’s blood boys.
Hmmmmm.... Some of those faces look a bit DEI to this proud American. At least they're all males.
DEI, all of them. They look like being assigned male at birth, but have obviously all transitioned into massive cunts.
The 🥦 is strong!
Imagine thinking this is a good career move. Or haircut.
This kid really out here using his haircut to advertise his dad's popcorn company.
Oh look, Elon groomed little boys who could have gone on to do something great.
And one who does is trying to cash in on his new job by charging people to read his Substack entry which boast, “Why DOGE: Why I gave up a seven-figure salary to save America.”
LOL
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Moron squad, assemble!
Some opportunistic idiots who seemingly don't have anything to lose and can be ditched by Elon as scapegoats if the need arises. I almost sure he groomed them with the myth of him being self-made billionaire and provided them a fabulous opportunity to join him. I'm almost sure they aren't kids anymore, but also that they don't know how to crime and that they need a plan B. In the musical chairs game they are likely to fall on their asses once the music stops.
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To be clear, this is a legit article so it stays, but no threats of Luigi here guys, lemmy can't afford the attention.
See:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/02/03/martin-supports-for-musk-doge/
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I really look forward to all 6 behind bars in a few years. I wonder if they know the level of treason they are committing?
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incel coup
"Good Squad" is peak headline. They do look like a bunch of gooners.
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