this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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Elon Musk says 'we dug our own grave' with the Cybertruck as he warns Tesla faces enormous production challenges::Tesla CEO Elon Musk said Wednesday that the Cybertruck's unique design means the company faces immense challenges in scaling production.

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[–] Infynis@midwest.social 226 points 2 years ago (4 children)
[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 164 points 2 years ago (2 children)

When things go right, it's "I". When things go wrong, it's "We". These are Musk's situationally preferred pronouns.

[–] DTFpanda@lemmy.world 46 points 2 years ago (3 children)
[–] CluelessLemmyng@lemmy.sdf.org 46 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean, with Trump it's more like 'They'.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 22 points 2 years ago

Yeah, Trump won't accept any blame for anything, even when it's obvious to anyone with a functioning nervous system.

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[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

Pretty standard for a rich boi

[–] dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 2 years ago

Credit for innovation: capitalism. Credit for failures: socialism.

[–] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

Must be the royal we.

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[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 123 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Wasn’t he the one who made a bunch of ridiculous demands? This car seems like it was designed by Homer Simpson.

[–] Person264@lemmings.world 33 points 2 years ago

In my head it was Elon who sketched the truck and told everyone "make that exactly how I drew it"

[–] bababooey@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No way this thing is soft and yielding like a nerf ball

[–] RojoSanIchiban@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

At least it'll be more powerful than a gorilla.

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[–] burgers@toast.ooo 80 points 2 years ago (2 children)

"When you've got a product with a lot of new technology or any brand new vehicle program, especially one that is as different and advanced as the Cybertruck, you will have problems proportionate to how many new things you're trying to solve at scale," he added.

does it have new technology? i thought it was just like, shockingly ugly?

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 50 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

It's got a lot of new things to them

800v power train

Newer 4680 cells

~85% custom chip controllers (up from 60s on Y)

48v power electronics instead of 12v, which is fairly new to everyone and the supply chain isn't as robust as the 12v one, but long term it's good for industry. (Edit I've heard talk of how they connect everything is going to be very different too, but nothing I've seen confirmed)

Folding the stainless steel at scale

9000T press, biggest one made

The wheels that can turn on front and back

New assembly method (excluding stainless steel part)

I'm sure there's more they didn't tell us.

It went from being a weird vehicle (love or hate it) to a new technology platform.

[–] xpinchx@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago (7 children)

4 wheel steering isn't really new. (but your point is still taken)

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

I did say "to them"

800v isn't new either, others use it

Edit: stainless steel aside, I have a suspicion that the 48v stuff will cause the most problems. That seems like a lot of suppliers where 1 problem halts the line.

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[–] Skies5394@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

For a company with already terrible QC that’s a lot more things to go wrong for buyers unfortunately

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[–] 666dollarfootlong@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

How is 48v better than 24v, for example? I don't really know much about car electronics

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Higher voltage allows for fewer amps. Higher amps creates more heat and requires thicker cables which cost more and add weight. So it's substantially less copper since the wires don't need to be as thick.

I can't give exact numbers, but going from a 12/24v to 48v wiring harness will reduce the harness weight. I don't know if that's on a linear scale or not in terms of reduction.

A thinner wiring harness would also be easier to manage and place, e.g more bendable, less space required to place it.

It also gives you more leeway if you do want to push more amps to something without having to get into the really really big unwieldy wires that are very difficult to shape.

24v would work, but I imagine the thought is, if we need to create a whole new supply chain for automotive parts at a different voltage, why go to 24v when we can go to 48v and get even more benefits? The process is already happening, others have some hybrid 48v usage.

Someone else could comment on this, but without knowing more, I would speculate that higher voltages would even allow some sort of shrinking of the components themselves since internally they wouldn't need to support as high of amps either, but that's just my speculation.

Edit: Just some hypothetical numbers. If a wiring harness is 150lbs and lets say 48v gets it to 50lbs, that's a $375 cost savings in copper alone. That's also a ton less copper used/mined across the whole auto industry once transitioned. At 67 million cars a year, that would be 6,700,000,000 lbs of copper saved per year.

[–] burgers@toast.ooo 9 points 2 years ago (4 children)

ok i work in a kind of tangential industry and can kind of answer this probably

in general the higher the voltage the smaller the current, which you're generally happy about because your 1) electrical losses and 2) cable/wire diameter are both proportional to current

the tradeoffs being 1) it gets harder and more important to isolate the circuit (e.g. your wire insulation that prevents the 12V bus from shorting out to the vehicle chassis now needs to be thicker) and 2) all the stuff people make for cars (i dunno, windshield wiper motors, radiator fans, whatever) is currently for 12V

in general this move probably makes sense, provided they're able to figure out their supply chains, and if tesla can position themselves as being like the first company to figure out a bunch of these 48V components at scale that's probably going to be really good for them. they did a kind of similar thing with the charging infrastructure if i understand currently, like now the tesla charging cable is the de facto north american standard

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[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 39 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It took a lot of work to make windows that shatter so easily.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

First you have to mass produce a lot of cannon balls, hire people and train them to throw the cannon ball perfectly so the broken window looks perfect.

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 78 points 2 years ago (35 children)

Gee... telling the engineers to getting precision to below 10 microns would cause production challenges.

[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world 66 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I've been doing PCB-board design recently. Here's the manufactuering specs: https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred

So that's 0.13mm tolerances to my printed-circuit board. Or 130 microns.


Current leading theory is that Elon Musk is such an ignorant dumbass that he doesn't know the difference between mils and microns, despite running a car company / manufacturing firm. Give that a thought. Even then, 10-mils tolerance is near this PCB design, an object that's only a few inches in size. Cars are much larger and normally should be built to much wider tolerances than a fucking PCB board.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If he said <10 mils, I'd might have bought the explanation that Elon actually meant millimetres. Micron is a very specific metric-based unit which to Elon might have been trying to use like a buzzword.

The moral of the story is don't say stupid engineering stuff if you don't want engineers to laugh at you.

[–] macrocephalic@lemmy.world 32 points 2 years ago

And 10 microns at what temperature? Because on something the size of a car, made of mixed materials, thermal expansion of less than a degree is going to blow that figure.

They couldn't apply paint to a tolerance of 10microns.

[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's almost like Elon Musk is a complete fucking moron and not an Engineer. The wanker has never actually designed a thing in his life. He just tells other people to design something, or buys an existing company, then struts around like he thinks he's the smartest thing around.

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[–] piecat@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

"At this point I think I know more about manufacturing than anyone currently alive on Earth."

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[–] Lanusensei87@lemmy.world 59 points 2 years ago

You'd think the guy claiming to "know more about manufacturing than anyone else on Earth" would have anticipated such issues at the start of the design process.

[–] captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org 45 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 37 points 2 years ago (4 children)
[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 9 points 2 years ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Cybertruck window demo

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[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

It didn't go through, guise ah ah ah ah

What a massive dunce

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[–] skymtf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 2 years ago

*invents stupid and logicitally impossible truck.

*Production challenges

[–] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 36 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Weird, Ford and Rivian both seem to be able to make an EV pickup truck.

[–] skyspydude1@lemmy.world 43 points 2 years ago

And GM, the epitome of "slow and bloated legacy dinosaur", who in the time since Tesla announced the cYbErTrUcK, managed to design AND RELEASE a truck before Tesla even had prototypes. At this rate, I think they'll technically have 3 different trucks out before a single cYbErTrUcK is sold.

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The real story is that a million people have reserved this thing.

[–] skyspydude1@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago

Given that I had dumbass coworkers at work who gleefully dropped $500 to "reserve" one of each trim, despite not even being able to even afford the cheapest trim (which will never even come close to existing with the listed price+specs), I'm not betting that it's probably 1/4 of that, and about 1/4 of those will ever actually translate to purchases.

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 26 points 2 years ago (5 children)

When I was a kid, I asked my dad why the cars on the road didn't look like any of the prototype cars I saw in autoshows or car books.

Now Elon has given me the answer. Those cars are hard to make at scale. One is doable, but thousands is impossible.

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[–] Enkrod@feddit.de 24 points 2 years ago

Who could have known that traditional manufacturers who have been building cars for decades have reasons to do it the way they did?

Surely not the man who reinvented the subway (but shitty) reinvented content moderation (but shitty) and reinvented the car (but shitty).

How come "normal" Teslas with traditional coachwork are selling, well not great, but good and every time Musk thinks he's the genius who'll singlehandedly completely reinvent a very competitive product he just creates a worse version?

[–] Smacks@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

I actually thought this was an elaborate joke. The "Cybertruck" looks like a piece of shit, and apparently is a piece of shit.

[–] Seudo@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Wait, that's a real thing? I thought it was just a marketing stunt!

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[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 18 points 2 years ago

There is exactly one reason I cancelled my tesla you stupid Muskrat.

[–] Gerula@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

I cannot believe it, this coming from the man who knows more about production and manufacturing than anyone alive! For sure the Genius of Musk will find a solution to overcome this.

Like when he demanded 10um tolerance for the assembly of the cybershmuck nobody understood and they said it's impossible. But he realised, he realised early on that the mail will leak and idiots will take it as an argument of quality and performance and be motivated to throw money at him. Conmen need money inflow to keep the scheme going.

/s or not ...

[–] Railcar8095@lemm.ee 12 points 2 years ago

Need a shovel?

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