this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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For the past 40 years, nearly every single championship team has had at least one player that was a 1st team all-NBA selection in years prior to that title year.

I could only find 2 exceptions to this rule:

  1. Steph Curry's first selection to 1st team All-NBA was the year he won his first title.
  2. The 04’ Pistons did not field a player ever selected that list.

For every other year, the champs had at least one such player. In nearly 50% of those years, the champ fielded 2 such players.

So, who meets the criteria this year?

  1. 76ers
  2. Warriors
  3. Clippers
  4. Lakers
  5. Suns
  6. Bucks
  7. Celtics
  8. Nuggets
  9. OKC
  10. Mavericks

We can further divide this list based on other data that’s likely not as accurate as the 1st team metric.

First, we can look at the average age of the roster weighted for minutes played. The average age of title-winning rosters, when weighted for minutes played, comes in at 28.234 years. Based on last season's numbers (all I had available, but enough to usefully ballpark), the following teams fall into this optimal age range:

  • Nuggets
  • Warriors (shockingly, but this might go up dramatically depending on CP’s usage)
  • 76ers
  • Mavs
  • Lakers (Again, lightly shocking but the bottom half of the roster is pretty young.)
  • Suns
  • 76ers
  • Celtics

We can then divide this list again by teams with 2+ stars with 1st team selections. Teams with 2 stars of this caliber win in nearly 50% of the seasons for the past 40 years. This means these teams have a much higher chance of winning in any given year than teams with just one 1st team guy.

  • Lakers
  • Suns

Some caveats regarding 2 star rosters*

The Warriors technically fit, but CP3 is past his statistical prime and that likely reduces the impact.

The 76ers technically fit while Harden is there, but he's likely to leave (and also past his statistical prime)

Conclusion: Anything can happen and the 04’ Pistons are proof, but the most probable outcome is that one of the above teams will win this upcoming year. The teams with talent in that top 5-7 range almost always win.

My personal prediction:

The Suns: Their offense is going to be really hard to stop. Making shots at a really high percentage makes playing defense easier because you're able to set your defense more frequently.

The Nuggets: Best player in the league, in his prime, with great support.

The Celtics: Eventually they'll get over the hump. Could be this year

The Lakers: If healthy*, I think theres enough there around Bron/AD

Dark horse: The Mavs - Sometimes a guy is just so good, he pulls a weak roster all the way.

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[–] BaileyHistory@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You had me until the Mavs lmfao they won't even make the play-in

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Which is why I caveated it with "dark horse". You may be right. I believe that Luka has the potential during his peak to absolutely drag a bad roster pretty deep though, so I guess we'll see if he's there yet.

[–] nikop@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Mavs look like a 50-win team to me. It's weird how many people are writing them off after one bizarre season with a bunch of roster turnover.

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is my gut too. IF Kyrie plays close to a full season, those two guys are talented enough to be an issue. Luka really has generational talent potential though.

[–] nikop@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

They were a solid playoff team for pretty much all of last season until they collapsed at the very end and even that took some injuries to an already depleted roster. No one even considered that they could miss the playoffs until the last couple of weeks of the season. I'd be shocked if they weren't a top-6 seed in the west as long as they remain relatively healthy, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to face them in the first round.

[–] ogqozo@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, there are 30 teams in the league, and half of them is not even trying to win now and if they had a First-team All-NBA level of star somehow, that star'd likely leave for a contending team. It doesn't really narrow anything much to make a list of 10. I guess Heat, Grizzlies and Cavs may be sad.

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I think it helps to give realistic expectations to teams that are competitive but lacking those guys. You constantly see posts about “can X team contend this year?”, and the answer is usually no if they don’t have “that dude”. I honestly don’t think a lot of people realize that they don’t actually have a shot

[–] jinyx1@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Who isn't trying to win now? The only teams that are legit gonna be bad are the Wizards and Pistons really. Everyone else will be trying to some degree. Obviously alot of teams aren't gonna be great or real contenders but overall this is the most stacked the NBA has ever been.

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[–] Cultural_Tank_6947@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm astonished that you've asterisked the Lakers and not the Suns.

Neither KD, nor Beal have had the best luck with injuries in the last few seasons.

[–] Short-Recording587@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I think Booker has deal with a lot of injuries too.

[–] Lucieddreams@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Not shocking for the Lakers, Bron and AD are the only players on the team over 30. We've got a nice young team this year. Welcome change from the Russ days

28, 27, 27, 24, 24, 24, 23, 23, 21, 20, 20, 20

[–] PeytonsPride18@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No Bucks? Easily one of the favorites.

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, I may regret that after watching 20 or so games. Recency bias mixed with Dames age and lack of post season success probably has me lower on them than they deserve. If that starting lineup is healthy, they’re gonna be very very hard to defend.

Also, they were outside of my weighted age window, which may mean absolutely nothing, but I still used it for fun.

[–] DenverBuck@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Lack of post season success"? They literally won the title 2 seasons ago, wtf are you talking about?

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Talking about Dame. Sorry if I phrased that poorly.

[–] DuckieTheDuckie@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Blazers made the playoffs 8 years in a row with Dame even being the 3rd seed man

[–] vowers@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

super confident the warriors are gonna blow everyone's expectations this year with their record. i think theyre better and more balanced team than Suns and the Lakers

[–] Slim-Ticket@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Another important criteria: 100% of championship teams had a winning record against above .500 teams in that season.

Out of this list, only Bucks, 76ers, Celtics, and Nuggets met that criteria last season.

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Damn, that’s super interesting. Makes sense.

[–] TheyCallMeTheWizard@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How’s that useful besides only in retrospect?

[–] Standard-Big1474@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Helpful at the start of the postseason

[–] SnarfSniffsStardust@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wolves fans have this stat burned into their brain after last season

[–] Slim-Ticket@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yep 😂

For those who don't know:

Timberwolves were one of the 5 teams who had a winning record vs .500+ teams. So technically they are a contender based on this criterion. BUT the Wolves were also one of 6 teams who had a losing record to .500 and below teams (along with Rockets, Magic, Hornets, Pistons and Wizards) 💀

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Any will be first team all nba. So basically we Gucci.

[–] n0th1ng10@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wouldn’t call the Mavs a weak roster. Jason Kidd did say last year after they traded for Kyrie that they were going to compete for a title. They have talent And a deep team.

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What does their rim protection look like? That, and reliable shooting, concerns me but I haven’t spent much time on them this year.

[–] n0th1ng10@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Derek lively has looked like a solid rim protector. They have an improved defense by adding grant. And they’ve always had shooters

[–] tonypearcern@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hotterer take: Miami with Harden will win the chip

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

If Harden can return to form, then that might push them over the top. They have something special in their culture and coaching that allows them to over perform given their talent.

[–] swapmeetpete@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

From a statistics standpoint, I don’t believe that an “average” age matters. Every championship team could’ve been 1/2 entirely 20 year olds and 1/2 entirely 40 year olds and the average would be 30 year olds who account for 0 Championships. You also didn’t identify how much leeway you gave on this range to those who made/did not make the cut.

[–] Rithgarth@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

This post is ageist against the Bucks lol

[–] BeardedNoOne@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I agree with everything you said OP except the Mavs, as they have two guys, Kyrie and Luka that can will you to the promise land

[–] Alex_O7@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I think that still believing that the Mavs are/could be contender is just a delusional way of thinking basketball. I could pick several reasons why they couldn't/wouldn't win, but I'll just say that NEVER* a player with the USG% of Luka ever made it even to the Finals...

The asterisk was for Allen Iverson, the only who who manages to do so. The Mavs and Luka has to change way of playing or else they won't win anything ever.

As for the next chaps I think Nuggets, Bucks and Celtics are the most favourite and I sincerely will be surprised to see anyone but those 3 winning. Maybe the Warriors if healthy may arrive to the Finals too, but don't see them winning it all.

Also don't understanding this much love for the Lakers, a team that not much better than last 2 years arrived at best 7th in West, had some lucky matchup that boosted their run, which could have easily ended in round 1 if the Wolves didn't chocked in the play in...

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[–] morcic@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The only criteria I believe in is health, chemistry, and favorable matchups.

[–] IMKudaimi123@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Dallas all the way

This reminds me DeRozan was robbed of first team All-NBA in 2021-22

[–] mtnsandmusic@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I think most NBA fans/experts would be shocked if the champ isn't one of 7 teams: Nuggets, Celtics, Bucks, Heat, Lakers, Warriors, Suns.

The Heat would be an outlier but they have made the Finals 2 of the last 4 years so they have to be included.

[–] durmduke@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

No way the Mavs are in the running but agree with your other assessments

[–] archenlander@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Lightly shocking" use a different word

[–] UndrehandDrummond@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Delicately shocked.

[–] Musa_2050@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Pack it up, boys. We are destined for one more chip.

[–] maxandgeorge@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Suns Nuggets Bucks Celtics

Permanent marker those 4 in the conference title

Nobody else is winning it

[–] NUMBERS2357@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Only problem I have with this sort of reasoning is that I don't think it adds much beyond what you'd get from simply eyeballing teams for whether they have good rosters.

I.e. you use this heuristic to pick 12 teams that might win the title. Is your list all that different from just asking people to pick the 12 teams most likely to win? People will tend to pick the teams with good players...

[–] YN_Decks@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Appreciate the effort in gathering the evidence, but isn’t this intuitive? Your takeaway is that championship teams have elite talent.

[–] shazam482@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for putting thus together OP. You've given a quantifiable metric which can be used to evaluate contenders. This is especially important since league parity means there are so many stars across the x30 teams

[–] Neekalos_@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

This just in: championship winning teams usually have very good players lol

[–] thebigmanhastherock@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I'd Doncic and the Mavs actually win the title that would be the biggest carry job since Rick Barry did it in the 70s. Although Doncic does have Kyrie, I just don't think Kyrie is really noticeably better than Brunson at this point and the supporting cast is weaker than when the Mavs last made the conference finals.

Jokes on you. ant edwards going to be first time all nba.

[–] bot_yea@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

RemindMe! 7 months

[–] Hibachi-Flamethrower@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If teams with 2 super stars win “nearly” 50% of the time, doesn’t that mean teams with just 1 or fewer win more than 50%?

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