this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2025
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    [–] KeraKali@lemmy.world 56 points 3 days ago (9 children)

    I'm gonna need some names because I only recognize like, two.

    [–] hellfire103@lemmy.ca 77 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    Going from lawful to chaotic, good to evil, we have:

    • Gecko (Firefox, Seamonkey, and derivatives)
    • Servo
    • Libweb (Ladybird)
    • Links2 (as well as ELinks and other forks)
    • WebKit (used in a lot of stuff, namely Safari and GNOME Web)
    • Goanna (Pale Moon and Basilisk)
    • QtWebEngine (Konqueror, Falkon, and qutebrowser)
    • Blink (Chromium, Brave, and derivatives)
    • Trident (Internet Explorer, old versions of Maxthon, old versions of Avant, and any homemade browser created with Visual Studio).
    [–] cerement@slrpnk.net 42 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    (until they get a new lead dev, Ladybird is definitely not any type of “Good”)

    [–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 20 points 3 days ago (26 children)

    100%, this is either uninformed or some apologia

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    [–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

    Is there any Servo-based browser? If not, it should be called Serval.

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    [–] lmuel@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Ladybird is certainly interesting to watch, it's improving quite quickly.

    I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like... seriously?

    [–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    Any details on that comment? Curious...

    [–] mke@programming.dev 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (17 children)

    I'll give my take on it. Something many fail to grasp is that it's not about a singular thing, you need to look at the context. Let's go through some of it:

    • Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes "he" to "they" in documentation.
      • This is the most frequently mentioned example of Andreas' issues.
      • The "he" in question referred to any user, where "they" is already commonly used instead by everything from companies, to news, to the Linux Kernel docs (an arguably much more important software project).
      • Andreas' exact words: "This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics."
      • This code was eventually merged 3 years laters in a different PR, this time described as "Grammar fixes" (it changes even more pronouns to gender neutral than the original did).
      • Someone got his attention and tried to explain to him why that's not cool; he doubled down, assuming the worst from the original contributor.
    • Andreas Kling likes interacting with far-right, queerphobic, or otherwise controversial persons.
      • Here's him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for... being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, "Senpai."
      • Here's him welcoming Vaxry, infamous for the toxic community of his hyprland project to the point of being kicked out of the freedesktop.org project. He's also on record saying "I do believe there could be arguments to sway my opinion towards genocide". There is a print of this, somewhere. I will find it and put it here.
      • Here's him doing a talk with Bryan Lunduke, tech's premier transphobe anti-DEI, anti-Woke conspiracy theorist with a classic far-right victim-complex.
        • Trudging through Bryan's slop wears on the mind, but here's another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: "There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years..."
          • Read anything by Bryan, then look into what he's talking about. There are at least as many examples, as there are times Bryan has touched upon LGBT topics or linux in recent years.
        • Here's relatively prominent KDE developer Niccolò's hour long video detailing how Bryan is a horrible, lying "journalist," and how people need to stop giving him a stage.
      • He also often interacts with other various degrees of right-leaning users on twitter, a platform he describes as full of positive energy, unlike Mastodon.
    • Other funny things about Andreas that could be irrelevant in isolation but... look at all of this.

    Would I look at that PR and say I'm not touching Andreas with a ten-foot pole? Maybe that's excessive. Would I ignore all the rest and say he's just misunderstood? Hell no. For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I'm not touching or otherwise supporting it unless Andreas gets his shit sorted.

    [–] beSyl@slrpnk.net 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    Oh wow.. He seeks to be ant alt right in disguise. God damn it.

    [–] mke@programming.dev 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

    I honestly can't tell if there's a disguise. Maybe there isn't! He seems to genuinely and stubbornly believe in the apolitical-centrist stuff, which you wouldn't think him capable of since he's so intelligent when it comes to programming... but programming intelligence is not necessarily applicable anywhere else.

    [–] BaumGeist@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

    Unfortunately—99.999% of the time—"apolitical" just means "I haven't taken the time to consider my deeply held values and how they show through in my day-to-day life and I want to stop hearing from people who challenge my worldview," not "I would like to not have this space devolve into discussions about governance nor economics" (which is also a political statement when you consider it's a community leader saying no one is allowed to question how they govern the community).

    E.g. why the fuck are pronouns "political"? Just because certain pundits have vilified anyone who uses less common ones to refer to themself? That just means any topic is potentially political, and all it takes is some asshole making the community you and your loved ones belong to part of their political agenda for your PR to be dismissed. "Sorry, that kind of usecase is common among Straight White Males™, and I don't want this project to be made unnecessarily political."

    Some people have no self-reflection, and it shows when they say shit like this. Only a matter of time before Kling claims people calling him out for being rightwing "pushed" him into the rightwing (because he realized the values he aleady held aligned with theirs, but lets conveniently forget to mention that part).

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    [–] trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 27 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    Why is QtWebEngine considered evil?

    [–] hellfire103@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 days ago (5 children)

    It's effectively Chromium.

    [–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 6 points 2 days ago

    It’s the other way around. KHTML begat WebKit and Blink, then we got QtWeb.

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    [–] erotador@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 3 days ago (19 children)

    chaotic good? ladybird? the browser by devs that refuse to use your pronouns?

    https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814

    [–] rtxn@lemmy.world 24 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (22 children)

    People are losing their shit, calling for boycotts, and throwing around accusations of transphobia over comments in the source code and a single line of documentation? Seriously? And brigading the developer three years after the fact‽ I was ready to write off Ladybird, but damn, this was taken way out of proportion.

    I'm all in for equal treatment, but people need to get a perspective. Such an extreme reaction will ultimately hurt the cause they're trying to advocate for. Getting bent out of shape and publicly brigading something for every perceived slight, every time someone's feelings are hurt, or can't get their way, will get them -- and the demographic or movement they represent -- labelled as undesirable.

    [–] mke@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

    A single line of documentation? How about looking into some context? Hurt feelings my ass, Andreas isn't some innocent, silly little guy who never does anything questionable.

    And which cause exactly are you talking about? Because I don't know about you, but I'll stand for real, marginalized people over lines of code on a screen any day.

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    [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago

    Oh what the fuck, dev came off like a fucking ass to a minor suggestion.

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    [–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (9 children)

    I'm not sure I have a lot of faith in Servo but we are in need of anything better than Gecko. Ladybird is the new one on the block and we will see if it goes anywhere. I like that Ladybird it's own web browser.

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    [–] milliams@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

    Where's KHTML? The O.G. GOAT.

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    [–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 21 points 3 days ago

    khtml deserves to be in the gift to humanity category

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