Headphones

Comparing motherboard audio to Creative X7, Fidelio X2 sounds better with an amp. HD800 sounds about the same.

I think it's because integrated audio has higher output impedance and it affects audio negatively.

Get an RME ADI-2 and call it a day. The feature set it has will make it sound like whatever you want. The loudness feature is to die for. Everything is customizable. I freaking LOVE this thing. You have an IEM output in addition to the standard phones jack. If you have a PC with 2.1 it auto-switches PEQ and audio playback when you pop something in the headphone jack. Bass treble knobs to make quick adjustments. Worth every penny.

When people say things like "This dac/amp is warm" or "This dac/amp is analytical," I cringe. With the RME you just dial it in to whatever you want.

You will get a lot of different options on this.

For me, it’s split.

DAC - no, not after a certain point. they are made so well now you can get a great one for £100. I have tried more expensive ones and heard no difference.

AMPs - yes or no depending on what you want to get from it. Super clean signal - then one with sufficient power will suffice. But Tube amps or one that will colour the music, then yes - if that’s the sound you like. More so for the Tube option.

It's really dependent. Amps have more diminishing returns than headphones so jumping from a $50 to a $500 amp is going to be much less of an improvement than a headphone equivalent. On the other hand, with a good enough amp, there can be significant improvement.

Good enough being already in the 100-200 USD range

My X2HRs distort when plugged into my laptop. Plugging them into an amp removes this distortion.

No

Try different sources. Test it. There are differences (especially with amps) but only up to a certain range (for reasonably drivable headphones), and after that the margin of error between performance diminishes a lot.

I could absolutely, 100% hear differences from my old analog mixer (BX-8) headphone outs vs any audio interface. The headphone out was mega powerful, but was also just weird (tho operating properly). FR definitely got a bit wonky with the mixer headphone out.

From my Presonus Audiobox iTwo to Schiit DAC/Amp. I believe there were differences, but it was very hard to tell. Easily placebo, I have to admit. I did trial after trial.

From my Schiit to RME, I believe I could not hear a difference.

I did a small blind test with a friend between iPhone 5s, 2021 Macbook Pro, and RME across 3 song intros. I volume matched each source with a test tone, mic, and calibrating volume. Findings were 100% inconclusive even after numerous re-listens/comparisons.

I would love to see these folks who say "It all just opened up after I bought this $1000 amp to replace my $500 amp. 🤯" do a blind test and fail repeatedly.

Where's that openness? 🤷‍♂️ Where're the obvious differences? 🤷‍♂️ Where's the incredibly better soundstage? 🤷‍♂️

Can't say the same for you, but yes a new dac amp really transformed my headphone to an almost entirely new headphone. It's a clear improvement, though I do miss the fun I get from the old Fostex amp.

Get a bang for the buck DAC like Gustard X18. I had many DACs ranging low to mid from Topping D90LE, RME Adi-2, and SMSL. X18 was the best one of them all. It was hard to differentiate between Topping and RME. But I was able to tell X18 sounded the best. It had noticeably bigger sound stage.

Amps didn't particularly improve the sound for me past $1k-1.5k USD. Some amps give you a thicker body while some give you leaner sound. It's just preference at that point.

The more expensive, the lower will be the (perceptive) difference… commonly, tbh most of the things are like this, cheap to intermediary have huge difference, then intermediate to premium is less, maybe who is deep into this area can tell the minimal details, but the rule remains the same

If you need an cheap, intermediate or premium DAC, the best one to say is yourself, most here are always pleased with Apple dongle, maybe even myself, but since the headphone that seems to be perfect for me in all aspects is DT 880 Pro so i will choose Focusrite Scarllet Solo since the warranty (3 years) and customer service are extremely excellent, also cause focusrite is very well recommended for beginners, as myself

Absolutly. Most people here will tell you some crap like "if it gets loud enough its perfect". Thats just not true. Most people who say that have never given it a try. On all headphones I tryed I have noticed significant differences between all sources. Just go to your local hifi shop, let them put some amps infront of you, pick a decently transparent headphone you enjoy and then go and listen. 95% of people who claim that qudelix 5k is the best amp out there and nothing can beat it cause "dacs have reached perfection" have never done this for sure.

Depends on the headphone. I have Q5K and an Aune X1S GT BT (these names) and while the Monoprice 1570c sound the same on both, the LCD-X 2021 sounds markedly worse on the Q5X. The Q5X can drive it in terms of volume, but it sounds hollow and tinny compared to deep, warm signature the X1S provide. The same goes for the Zero Reds. Hollow and tinny on the Q5K and deep/warm on the X1S.

From mojo 2 to chord dave was quite a leap

Everything you put into the chain will affect the sound in some way. With DACs the differences are extremely small usually. Even using different technologies like DS and R2R, the difference is very small.

With amps in my experience, the differences can vary from imperceptible to small. If you’re talking about solid state vs. tube, you’re much more likely to hear a difference. Comparing two solid state and high quality amps, you may not even notice a difference, but sometimes it’s pretty obvious especially if it’s an integrated amp that is adding some EQ into the chain. Or if comparing an A vs. AB vs. D amp.

Anyone saying “there’s no difference” is probably talking about comparing two amps/DACs using the same technologies. But there’s more of variance when you start talking about different tech. It’s still subtle though IMO, it’s mostly for people who are trying to eek out those last few percentage points if you have sensitive/ trained ears.

The real truth... Dacs as long as they are good, don't make much of any difference at all. The biggest thing is to make sure it has onboard lossless EQ, that will make a huge difference

Amps, do make a difference but the differences are definitely subtle.

I have a ferrum oor with hypsos and I also have the topping a90.. I've AB'd them blind with help of my girlfriend..

The ferrum adds some grip and tightness to the bass, and adds some separation and everything sounds more 3d and in it's proper place within the mix. It's also a bit clearer, the A90 there's a bit of a warm veil there, though it's subtle.

The A90 is looser, and more 1 dimensional, meaning the sounds don't take their place as much, more like the sounds are stacked on top of each other, but there's a catch, the A90 brings everything to the forefront, which creates an incredibly intimate and arresting effect where the music sounds more like it's coming from within you than you are listening to it all around you, which for certain music, like folk and acoustic is a very emotional experience, which is why I keep it. Despite having an amp that costs 5× as much money

Cue all the poors telling you it doesn't. What makes a difference and is worth the value tends to change based on what you can afford.

FWIW my MacBook Air M2 seems to have a more neutral sound with my LCD-X than my Playmate 2 with "vivid" OP amps. Seems the Playmate 2 smoothes the highs and surprisingly also seems to lower the bass volume significantly. Then it seems to widen the "stage" a bit, but that could also be imagined.

Yes they do

No. You have a Qudelix. Unless you’re trying to drive a truck with them, like maybe 15-20 headphones on earth that require more juice than the balanced output is capable of putting out to reach safe listening volumes, you have everything a person could want for in the world.

Just AB test it when possible, spend a considerable amount of time when testing it, in that way you can objectively make a decision on it.

In most cases no, a lot of headphones will work just fine with your average phone or PC and there's no audible difference, at least to me, between that and a dedicated DAC/Amp.

For my DCA Stealth though the difference is quite clear, they're not easy to drive and sound nowhere as good as they can with just a phone or PC nor do they get very loud.

In my experience it does. Had a qudelix and an ifi for a while, and the jump to k7 was nice. It just sounds better, tighter. But I have a feeling once you get past the 500 dollar stuff it's much less noticeable.

Subjectively it is very small difference - if it can be measured I would give it about 1-2% when you change the source. But - I think it is good because you need to check in which area you will get that small change. And also you are getting constant change in sound, even for a small amount. It is not like you upgrade your graphics card which is gonna be slow in couple of years from buying it. This doesn't need to be changed, it can even sound better after some time if you get a better recording.

Went from schiit magni 3 modi 3 stack to a Topping L70/E70 stack. Not much difference to be honest apart from a smoothed out top end.

I mainly bought the amp for the remote and the DAC to match it for the looks.

Bloody expensive upgrade tbh but happy with the setup now because it's better for me to use rather than upgrading for the sound.

IMHO, DACs are mostly snake oil. Expensive DACs and good cheap DACs sound identical to my ears.

The amp is what can actually impact the sound, to me. It’s often worth investing in a good amp that complements your headphones, especially with higher end headphones, and less sensitive/higher impedence headphones that might need something beefier to drive them well (Hifiman HE-6 as a notorious example).

i run my HD650 off of my realtek alc onboard sound chip 🤓

Ive never noticed a dac improvement and have tried a lot. Bad amps are super noticeable but after a certain point i can’t tell the difference. I use a 500$ amp and a 200$ dac currently with multiple 3k plus headphones which some may consider unbalanced. I personally get a lot more out of the headphones/speakers than dacs or amps.

IME yes. HD6x0's in particular can do some interesting things with certain amps.

I don't have really nice headphones, but i do have a really nice dac/amp.
Just two weeks ago i got out my old AKG K340 (the electrostatics, very hard to drive) and plugged them into my mid-tier audio interface (OctaCapture): it sounded absolutely shit.
Thin, no low end.

Then, i got to the living room and plugged them into my RME dac/amp and behold: that's how it should sound! I'm not under the impression a good and a very good dac make that much difference, but having a headphone amp with enough headroom and a low output impedance does matter. The SSL too has a pretty bad headphone stage if i remember correctly, they had to cut some corners somewhere for that price.

Now, i got myself a Sabaj A20d dac/amp to replace the audio interface and that was a big step up from the OctaCapture and guess what: it was a lot cheaper than the interface and about 9 times as cheap as the RME. Does the RME sound 9 times better? Nope, not even twice.

No. Just have enough power to drive them. Pad swapping is the only legit way to change the sound. If you try three pads and they still suck, you just don’t like that headphone.

HD600 user here. Had experienced with different dac/amps. I don't think price matters for me, but the kind of tech used for each dac or amps was interesting stuff to explore. The best one for me was the cheap standalone dac from drop and the entry class level A from headamp. Ended up selling those as well because out of curiosity, I plugged my 600 to my sister's macbook and shi..t. I'm a macbook user with no amp whatsoever now

I believe expensive DAC's are snake oil, the important part is not being a half assed afterthought, like what comes with basic PC's or various electronics. Apple's $10 will do just fine up to 44KHz, and there is debate that higher frequencies are even detectable by humans. That's not to say it is not. For a long time the conventional wisdom was human eyes can't see more than 60FPS, but I could, now there are 240Hz gaming monitors everywhere.

In some cases yes. In some cases no. In many cases money doesn't have anything to do with it.

I have some Aeon2Noir headphones that I like a lot but they are hard to drive. Rednet AM2 is not cheap but it falls apart with them, the Grace M900 however runs them nicely. The AM2 is more expensive. I should do a test with the Atom to see how it sounds honestly.

Long story short: NO.

It doesn't make any difference at all, and those that think it does have fallen for placebo and snake-oil. The human brain is really easy to deceive with hearing, so to this day, and well into the future, people will continue to claim they hear things they really don't.

Maybe it does, but as far as my ears are concerned I cant tell the difference between the cheap dac+amp I used to have and my current, more expensive, setup. The bigger benefit of my current setup are more options for input and output.

Another one of these threads is EXACTLY what this sub needed

Don’t waste your money on expensive DAC/AMPs. Most DAC/AMPs are measure flat nowadays so they won’t change the sound of the headphone. They’ll make your headphones louder but that’s about it.

More powerful amp? Yes. Once I bought a proper amplifier so noticed they were driven much better, especially with EQ. But I haven’t noticed much more out of them than my Schiit Heretic/Modi stack does.

I have a shio.

For some reason it sounds way better on desktop than on phone.

So the power/software source will also influence the output.

I recommend using audiosciencereview to check out your DAC/Amp. Amir gives good objective reviews, while saying performance above a threshold isn't noticeable.

They 100% make a difference, BUT there’s a massive difference in them all. I’m a bass head, so a lot ‘audiophile’ ones I don’t love as I prefer a warmer more punchy sound. Clean and clinical isn’t for me!

Currently have a Chord Mojo and love it. Transforms the sound of my Beyer 770s and all my iems. I mainly listen to DnB, electro soul, glitch hop and all that sort of stuff.