Ask Lemmy

Men who brag how little time they spend with their kids shouldn’t be having kids.

My company offers parental leave (generic, not gender-specific, and applies to adoptions as well as giving birth). Everyone I work with expects people—men included—to take it.

A guy on my team took his a couple years ago and now with his second child recently born, he is applying his lesson learned. Instead of taking the time as soon as his kid is born, overlapping time off with his wife, he’s letting his wife take her full time then he’s taking his. That way they stagger the full-time care of the newborn for about 4 months straight, after which his wife will be done teaching for the summer, meaning more like 7 months straight.

Another coworker (Director level) had his latest kid December before last. Our busy time is January to April, so he delayed and took his time off in May or June.

Fuck companies that don’t support it and the small-minded people who think men shouldn’t take it. I can understand how challenging it can be for a small business to support that kind of leave, but as humans we should care more about supporting the next generation than a couple hits to productivity at work for 2-3 months. (I write as a permanently child-free person.)

What you’re missing is that the people you work with are stuck in the mindset from 2 generations ago. Don’t buy in. Taking your leave IS supporting your family; you’re doing it right.

When I'm on my deathbed, I'm absolutely sure I won't be thinking about work.

Yeah we haven't in Australia, seen people take it , it's a great idea

I'm not a psychologist or whatever to say how long but the dad should get as much leave as the mother does to help deal with all the new baby shit and bond with the child.

You should take all the time you can get. Fuck other people's expectations.

My manager is on paternaty leave for half a year, it is normal here, he is a dad after all!

Those 12 weeks will be no walk in the park. You rightfully state you'll be taking care of everyone, and it's 24/7 juggling new dynamics and a whole new human being's needs.

Yes, people survive with less time or no time off at all. I'm convinced some brag about it like some badge of honor to make themselves feel better.

Thank you for being considerate of your family's needs. Good luck!

I’m all for paternity leave, but there is a conflict between taking time off to take care of your newborn, and taking time off to breathe.

Newborns aren’t exactly a vacation.

I had 8 weeks fully paid through use of accrued PTO. 8 weeks is about the minimum of paternity leave necessary to kind of get your life back into order imo. This isn't a vacation, it's taking full care of a little person that needs help every 2-3 hours. If both you and your partner work it would be impossible without leave just due to sleep depravation. Our first kid was (is still 4 years later) a terrible sleeper and the first few months were hell. Luckily our second is actually a better sleeper than the first right now and she's only 8 months old lol.

But yes, 12 weeks paternity is not a vacation, it is work. Plan for 12 weeks and if you think that you have everything sorted then great, go back. But daycare might be more than what you would make going back to full pay so just consider that too.

So basically, the choice is to spend 12 weeks with those idiots or with your baby? Seems like a no brainer to me.

I WISH my husband had been able to take time off. Those first few weeks of sleep deprivation are fucking ROUGH on your own. I think you did the right thing and that the child is going to get dramatically better care because his parents are actually sonewhat rested.

In the U.S. we're taught to brag about how much we're exploited, as if it's a virtue.

It's a very sick culture.

People are idiots. Why would you give up a benefit you're legally entitled to? Nobody is going to as much as thank you for that.

Take the paternity leave with pride

Come to the EU, noone will scoff at paternity leave here. On the contrary, colleagues will congratulate you for procreating lol

Am American. Would take every day of it. Would come back and laugh at them when they picked on me for it, while calling them idiots for not taking advantage of the opportunity. "Have fun talking yourselves out of regret, losers."

@neomachino,

You will never get the time back to be with your offspring during these formative months into years. I would scoff at any "scoffers" and tell them their bragging about not taking time off to be with their family isn't the flex they think it is. Life is more than just your occupation. I'm an American living in the Netherlands with my Dutch wife these days, and I can guarantee with certainty my European colleagues would scoff at me if I didn't take the time off. Attitudes towards this are changing in the U.S., albeit too slowly in my opinion, but our culture is fundamentally sick. I primarily blame puritanical christian zealotry that made its pact with the devil (pun fully intended) with avaricious capital for much of the woes found in our society, for what its worth. The gods willing, this will die out in a few generations.

Take the time and cherish it; your future self and children will thank you.

Their logic is from a POV of they dont get the benefit since they aren't expecting parents or didn't get that benefit if/when they wer, so why should anyone else. When really the proper evolved response is to be happy that new trends are being set and we're improving the cruel system that keeps new parents from critically important family time.

What you're missing is some men legitimately hate their wives and children and dislike spending time with them. Others drank the coolaid of American capitalist propaganda. Your child will only be a newborn once and your wife will need the help. If anything you should be normalizing it by telling all your friends and colleagues how great it is and how happy you are to get to spend that time with your family. Never shut up about how awesome it is. Expound at length about the many benefits you personally enjoyed thanks to your time with your new child. Every man you convince makes the world a better place.

Take the full 12 weeks - you’ll never regret it. Superhero dads are there for their wife and children. You’re doing the right thing.

My man, you are literally getting paid to spend time with a tiny human being you helped make. You’d have to be pretty deep into the Kool-aid bottle to say no to that.

I had my mandatory 15 weeks last year and loved it, so from one dad to another: enjoy it!

And remember: if you die tomorrow, you’ll be replaced at work within a few weeks, but you can never ever be replaced at home.

You are experiencing gender based persecution. Think of men who can't be a stay at home dad, work as a nurse, or can't show emotion, etc. Women who want to do construction work or STEM. LGBT and especially trans discrimination is also that taken to an extreme because the perceived gender divergence is more drastic. For whatever reason, there are many people in society who want to enforce strict artificial gender roles on other people.

You’re the smart one. Fuck the haters. Ignore them.

I had 12 months of paternity leave, 11 paid. I dig it.

You are missing better coworkers, or coworkers who haven't succumbed to the stupid idea that working yourself to the bone for someone else's profit is good.

"Men are hard working" my ass. Taking care of kids is hard work and if they can't understand that, their social conditioning worked exactly as expected.

Those first few months, especially with your first kid… man. The sleep deprivation alone makes it worth it. Not to mention all the firsts that happen so fast that you’ll otherwise miss… presumably to work for “the man.”

Am American, but been lucky enough to work with people who understand this, and maxed out all paternity leave I could get.

Pretty sure THEY are the ones missing something. They've been brainwashed into thinking you should be embarrassed NOT to shun your family so you can be at work 24/7 to make someone else rich. Take advantage of that program while it still exists.

Ignore them. If you can, should you try and stagger the time off with your s/o. Don't take it at the same time.

Enjoy it. A great number of people in the US have been conditioned to tie up their sense of worth to their job, and can’t comprehend there’s more to life.

I’d take 12 years paternity leave if I could.

Fuck those people dude. When it comes to children. The days are long, but the years are short. Enjoy the time you have with them when they are little and don't miss out on all those amazing moments. I took 12 weeks with my kid and it was wonderful to just watch her grow. Take benefits where you can, fuck the haters.

I always thought it should be even between both parents, along with a staggered return to work at the end. So ideally you can have parents then working mostly alternate days for a few weeks before a full return to work. And the employer shouldn't be allowed to have any say in it because otherwise its inevitable that pressure is put on you not to take it.

First of all dont tell your coworkers shit. It almost always becomes ammo for them later.

Definitely take advantage of every state program you can. You paid for it already. People talkin shit are fuckin smoothbrained trogs

My main thought on paternity leave is that it should be exactly the same as the maternity leave so that there is no difference between hiring a man or a woman.

I came into this thread thinking I'd just post "Uhh, it was pretty nice?"

Then I read the post text. Jesus fuck.

The other comments are probably right, no real point in doing anything but ignoring them. But goddamn, my first instinct would be to try and call them out on that bullshit attitude. No way am I clever enough to do it effectively, though.

Any man that thinks work is more important than spending time with the family is a bad father. I say this as the son of a bad father.

It's just hyperbolic masculine capitalism being parroted. Live in the U.S. south and have dealt with many friends and their relatives who have said the same shit. I've been around long enough to see those same people completely fall apart when the lives at home just crumble because they're too busy with work (illness, deaths in family, etc). They always eventually come to regret the decisions and times they've missed once they get in their later years.

There's nothing wrong with choosing to prioritize a work career in one's life though, but hating on someone else's choice is just ridiculous.