Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Every country has their own brand and degree of nationalism. For example, in Europe, you won't commonly see the national flag displayed in a private context in countries like France or Germany, but it's very common as a decoration in Switzerland and Denmark. Doesn't mean I'd really compare the Danes or Swiss to American nationalists though. I think what makes US-brand nationalism a special kind is the intense superiority complex, the feeling that they're the greatest country on earth and everyone else doesn't matter. No Swiss nationalist would think that their country could thrive without at least some degree of cooperation with other countries.
Maybe other large-population countries like China and India might be more similar. When I went to high school in China as an exchange student, they had a flag-raising ceremony once a week where the national anthem was played. But I guess that's still tame compared to having the pledge of allegiance every day.
Yup, seeing a french flag in a private context feels off, you immediately get the sense that whoever put it up has very intense feelings about the Motherland/Fatherland.
I think what makes US-brand nationalism a special kind is the intense superiority complex, the feeling that they're the greatest country on earth and everyone else doesn't matter.
You're spot on, to the extent that there is a concept describing exactly this: American Exceptionalism.
The Swiss might be a bad example. They are easily the craziest, most nationalistic people in Europe. I've dealt a lot with Swiss from all kinds of backgrounds over several years, and with foreigners living and working in Switzerland, and I can confidently say that I have never experienced anything comparable to how normal and ingrained xenophobia and an endless vicious hate for foreigners are in Swiss culture. The average Swiss seems to despise foreigners (who make about 50% of the workforce, btw) and views themselves and their country as superior to anything that might exist in the universe. This is not only a rural problem, it is common in several cities as well, perhaps most prominently in Lucerne. Their xenophobia has also been institutionalised with the Swiss police of several cantons enjoying the harassment of foreigners as their favourite pastime.
Not to down talk your experience, politically we definitely have a huge problem with the extreme right wing party passing laws that are extremely problematic. And I would probably also agree that the swiss are possibly more xenophobic than neighbouring countries, especually when it comes to things like aquiring citicenship which is quite frankly insane. One thing I have also heard mentioned from expats though is the concept of the "swiss stare". Basically that we swiss tend to quite directly stare at strangers when they get on a train etc. Being socialized in Switzerland we probably don't notice that we even do it but to foreigners it could possibly feel menacing or hostile. Another thing, Lucerne is very touristy to the point of over tourism and that will create tension anywhere not just in Switzerland, see the whole " tourists go home" movement in spain etc..
In public spaces and every day life no.
Sports yes.
Pledging allegiance to the flag in school? That is absurd.
Don't confuse patriotism with nationalism. Patriotism is love for one's homeland, nationalism is a delusion of blood and soil.
Yeah, I'm a patriot, but I hate nationalists with a passion.
Also, why does nobody here know that their mindless nationalism is weird? I've seen military guys stop traffic to stop their cars in the middle of the road and stand with their hand over their heart towards the nearest flag when they play the trumpets at the end of the work day. ( on a military base) But seriously, why would you stop rush hour traffic to virtue signal your worship of an inanimate object. Those people should not be allowed to use firearms. There is seriously something wrong with that. My coworkers did the same thing, but not while they were driving. It's beyond bizarre.
You're supposed to stop your car for colors. You don't necessarily need to get out, but hence the rush to get there and inside before colors.
Yea, and gladiators were "supposed to" die for the glory of Rome. When are people going to get past pomp and circumstance? It's fucking pathetic.
Rarely in Europe.
If there is the Football World Cup or Euro Cup, you will see flags in European Cities and People wearing them are not uncommon.
During a random Tuesday, this is very uncommon as people tend to remember in which country they live without having to be reminded.
No.
I live in Denmark but used to live in the US. I see a LOT of the Danish flag around (Dannebrog 🇩🇰) but it's a lot less nationalistic. The level of "I love my country" is a bit weird but it's the "it's the best country and all others suck and wish they were us" that's incomprehensible.
I think David Cross said something like this:
If you're in Europe and someone tells you how your country sucks and isn't free, you know they're American
Hard no. I've been to 25ish countries (I've lost count), and US is the only country I've been to with so many flags and rituals around the state and its government.
- National anthem before every sportsball game.
- Pledge of allegiance.
- Flags every where every day.
- "Thank you for your service".
- Picture of President in any building that serves a government function (at least the ones I've been to... Not that many, tbh).
- Naming anything and everything after presidents and statesmen
I think Americans should go answer that for themselves. As an exercise.
Most Americans can't read. The rest you lost at 'exercise'
I should be offended, but this is just too damn funny.
Generalize much?
OP's being a smart ass, but I recently learned that their statement is true, for a certain value of "read".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
There is much literature (heh) that quotes the same numbers, or near enough. So yeah, I'm going to say most Americans can't read. And BTW, this is one of the most shocking truths I've learned in life.
Yeah, the US has reached an incredibly low standard of literacy for what is supposed to be a developed nation. The numbers on reading level are scary. Also look at how much people read as adults. We just don't learn how and then we don't practice during our lives. It's a nation of partial literacy being kept together my hyper nationalism and smart phones to distract us with 6 second videos.
Do you remember the time Marco Rubio repeated the same thing twice during a presidential debate ? His speech included calling the US "the greatest nation in the history of the world" but no one minded that.
In most countries you would be ridiculed for saying something like that, but from what I understand Americans are taught that their country is the best in basically everything and they are very lucky to be born there because every other place is worse off.
US has alot of propaganda through various means, but its greatest affect is on conservatives, they are much easier to convince. copaganda, military propaganda, performative politics for the military.
I guess North Korea wins this contest. Then Singapore. Usa comes later...
The most "I love my country" thing i have seen was someone dying their hair to represent the country flag
I have seen more people in my country wear the USA flag than my countries flag
Like mentioned in another comment there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism.
I would add to that there is a difference between loving one's country and being a fetishist of its flag or its national anthem.
You will find flags in all countries. The question is more what proportion of the population is obsessed with them?
I'm French and I can tell you that beside the far-right, who loves waving flags and singing the first few lines of the Marseillaise (most of them, like the rest of the population probably have never taken the pain to read the entire song, even less so to memorize it, too much of a hassle). For the most part, you will find flags on public buildings and offices. Seldom on private home/office.
Also, it's visible during special celebrations, say, each year for the 14th of July (France's birthday) some streets and stores will be decorated and, at least where I live (Paris), public transit will also have a little flag waving in the wind.
Last but not least, you will mostly see the French flags waved, this time en masse, during sport events. People will also proudly wear french colors on their clothing and on their face, or on their head (I fucking love this stupid hat, but Io don't own one). But then you will also see the other countries flags being waved by their own supporters, and most of the time they don't end-up killing one another ;)
Like I said, people barely know more than the first few lines of our national anthem, kids are not required to swear allegiance to the flag either at school. Some people are discussing about bringing that back but I'd rather see them bring back some traditional reading and math lessons, like in the 'good old days'... when kids actually were taught something useful. Because we've been suffering from the same issue you have with your US school system: it's falling apart, badly. Our kids aren't taught much if anything. More and more of them can barely read or write, and they can't do simple math. Let's not mention getting any notion of civic education, history, philosophy (which would all help make a more informed & better-equipped citizen, which is not that silly in any country that is supposed to be a democracy).
That being said, even without a flag, we're many to love our country, despite all its flaws, even those of us who criticize it vehemently. We just don't need to show that by waving some cheap piece of fabric, or glue a sticker on a some car.
I have bookshelves filled with books on French (and European) politics, history and philosophy. Sure those are not flags I can wave on the street or glue on my car to show what a true patriot I am but, imho, their non flashy content represent France (and the many other EU countries) a little better than any cheap piece of fabric put on a mast.
That being said, I have a pair of socks with a french flag on them. Could that count a patriotism? ;)
In Spain yes. We call them "patriotas de la pulserita" because they always have wristbands with the spanish flag.
We don't have flags on poles, put people put the spanish flags on the balconies.
We Americans have little past by which to define ourselves, so we fall to "We're the best!". There's a joke to be made about white supremacists doing the same.
Love us or hate us, you gotta admit we've had one hell of a run in a very short time frame.
None of the Western ones. Probably not Zimbabwe either, although I could be wrong about that. Africans are usually aware of how much development is ahead of them.
China is a lot like America in other ways, so it wouldn't surprise me if they do that stuff, and North Korea is obviously rabidly nationalistic in it's own way.
Canadian flags in unnecessary places are becoming more common, but that's basically us aping you, because we get all your media and define our whole identity as a contrast to America.
Do people in France have flags on their cars
Waving a french flag under almost any circumstance would be regarded a very weird
Turkmenistan has some amazing propaganda and surprisingly, interesting music on the propaganda channels. Never would want to go there, though.
The fuzzy hat horse sing-along segment goes surprisingly hard? 16:31, pre-stamped:
North Korea is.
The US is a big country and it depends on where you are. Usually, expression of patriotism is directly correlated to the number of dualies found in that region.
Anywhere you go, in any country, you are going to find a subset of rabid nationalists.
In my experience, Canadians living in the US are more prone to express their own patriotism by hanging American and Canadian flags. (That is just my experience and also shouldn't be considered a constant.)
This reeks of bias so it's probably of interest: https://typingadventure.com/vive-la-france/