We shouldn't decide the morality of things based on it being legal or illegal. The law is at best an after thought around morality.
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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The law is a essentially the enforceable moral code of the state that enforces it. Most criminal laws were created to penalise acts that are considered morally reprehensible. I wouldn't say the law is an afterthought around morality but a reflection of the morality of the state. The laws are largely written by the capitalistic class and are a reflection of what they consider right and wrong.
Yeah but the problem with this sentiment is that it eschews responsibility for the state its self, a responsibility for which a people always ultimately are. A state legislature makes laws. City councils create rules. Dog catchers have policies. At any point you can work to take responsibility for those positions. Its not an abstract theoretical thing. These are real material positions.
We are responsible for the society we live in.
Yes. Laws can be changed but in reality but don't really have that much say nor do they even pay that much attention. Let me ask how much people really vote with the homeless on their mind? How much people voted for Biden because they were genuinely excited for him or because he just was the only way to prevent Trump from coming back? The laws of the state are a reflection of what it deems to be moral and just there's no way around that.
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When it comes to actions of government agents, though, following the law is the most basic form of accountability, and unaccountable governments are never good.
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The San Francisco Department of Homelessness and Supportive Housing had a 2022-2023 budget of $672 million dollars. This does not include EMT and police services. It's just what they earmark for homelessness.
In 2022, there were 7,754 unhoused people in San Francisco.
That's roughly $86,000 per person they spend on getting them housing, and still failing at it. The average rent for an apartment in SF is $3500 a month, or $42,000 per year. They're spending twice as much as they would if they just got apartments for people.
Where is that money going, I wonder
Housing is just one aspect. Food, medicine,, paying for employees (social workers, security, medical staff) etc. But even if say 75% of that was for housing it's not easy to just say rent them apartments; first off not enough apartment buildings are willing to take them in. It's difficult to even find cheap motels that will work with cities to temporarily house the homeless even though it's guaranteed money. Cities are looking at building shelters but then it's NIMBY time. Without dedicated facilities with mental health, addiction, etc treatment which the US doesn't have homelessness will be a forever problem.
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BUT BUT BUT WE CAN'T JUST SOLVE PROBLEMS, WE VAVE TO MANAGE THEM.
7754 is the PIT count of people homeless at one given point in time. Many, many more cycle through homelessness in any year.
Most long-term homeless people can't just be given free apartments - they have serious, often untreatable problems that would make such a solution unsustainable.
A quick google shows that most homelessness advocacy groups can cite numerous studies that show housing-first solutions are not only more effective, but also cheaper.
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Shut the fuck up, there are so many empty, insured buildings rotting away or even sitting in great condition but if we had to build new ones that CAN be done cheaply. No matter how bad they are, their problems would undoubtedly be VASTLY improved by the roof over their heads, and it could be sustained easily by the government taxing the rich even obscenely slightly. But no, instead we pass that burden onto the middle class so they get brainwashed into hating the poor too. Or stigmatizing, looking down on them, writing them all off as lesser beings who don't deserve a shred of hope. But realistically? Even if you have a million dollars today you could end up like them tomorrow. I remember somebody new starting at pizza hut who had just lost his house and was selling his Ferrari- it can happen to you. So many people are right around the corner from being homeless themselves and don't know it. Don't ever let anybody downplay that reality.
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Why do the right cheer as if it's a permanent solution? They'll be back as soon as the important people are gone. To say the problem is "fixed overnight" is like saying "Look Mom, I cleaned my room!" after you just finished sweeping everything underneath the bed and hiding it with the covers.
I do hope they fix the problem, but I don't know what else they can try other than just building houses and giving them the keys. That would probably be less expensive in the long run, but taxpayers evidently feel better paying for homelessness programs in perpetuity rather than giving people free shit one time.
Conservatives don't know how to fix or build anything anymore. They have no solution to homelessness and they don't care . Sending police to crack some skulls and patting themselves on the back for it is the best they've got.
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Were they moved into sanctuary districts? https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District
DS9 just seems to get more and more relevant with age. Sad we haven’t done any better than projected by the show.
No, it seems like they just had their tents and possessions taken and then we're forced to find a different street to sleep on. The sad thing is something like Trek's Sanctuary Districts would take a government that is way less cruel to the homeless than we currently are.
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republicans love the idea of a brutal authoritarian police state society
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Housing needs to be a right. Every citizen should be able to go to a housing authority and have a roof over their head if they are unable to afford it.
Agreed. I'd go a bit further. Anything regarding sustenance should be a right:
Housing, healthcare, access to clean water, clean air, at least one hot meal a day, and emergency services should be a right.
I'll even go as far as arguing that internet access should be included in that list.
Better yet, college
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Wow that sure is a shitty thing to do to humans....
Right-wing: "yay" on all shitty things.
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I just do not understand why we are not addressing homelessness in more productive ways. We know it can be better managed as some countries have figured it out. Really crazy that we are not all on board with just doing the right thing and having a win win for all. We choose to suffer and we choose to sweep our suffering under the rug when guests come over.
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Illegal eviction and illegal failure to preserve tenant possessions. California let them move in and remain, now they must follow their own rules protecting squatters.
They will absolutely be sued for this.
It’s getting there but we’re still pretty far from critical mass. Need 10x more people to truly show the world how far US has slipped in favor of the 0.01%.
An extrapolation to say the government could clean up the city over night of homelessness because they were able to relocate a portion a few neighborhoods for an event.
also no one on the left went live on any national tv broadcast to denounce it either
Of course conservatives would cheer the continued marginalization and traumatization of society's most vulnerable. They touch themselves to the cruelty.
American liberals are only progressive until it fucks with their money.
At this point the homeless ought to try staging a camp in at the city hall. Get the headlines all over them being dragged out of there.
I remember homeless people doing exactly that in Santa Cruz back in the eighties to great success.
However, public sentiment over the past thirty years really seems to have swung aggressively toward the fuck you I got mine so die end of the pendulum.
Food Not Bombs did it there ten years ago too. They camped outside of city hall every week, getting arrested over and over. They were finally given a vacant lot next to the freeway to freely camp in after that. It started after SC passed anti-camping laws, making it illegal for any unhoused person to fall asleep.
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Dear conservatives,
Why are you purposefully awful?
With love, Everyone
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While I agree we should be solving the root problem of homelessness equitably, the headline is misleading as I know many people on the left were also happy to have clean streets for a while.
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Who remembers that homeless encampment in Texas that was about to be ripped apart by cops, until a bunch of armed people turned up to defend it?
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I read the article, there doesn't seem to be any mention of where they went. The people vice interviewed seem to be playing coy and giving a bunch of carefully sanitized non-answers about what happened. ~~San Francisco just made 500 homeless people vanish?~~ No, excuse me, big ol' homeless camps just happened to up and vanish with no police intervention just in time for APEC? Yeah, fucking right. Dollars to dimes that they bussed them to the central valley. I know you can do better than this, California, get your shit together.
I also noticed that after a recent sweep/camp cleanup of homeless encampments in Seattle, the local Sinclair station (KOMO) was quick to run footage of people (presumably to be representative of Seattle folk generally) basically gloating that AT LAST they did something
Yes, the right are going to do everything they can to give others the impression that everyone else also regards poor people to be vermin, to be purged... preferably violently. The purpose of this sort of language is always to condition its audience to accept, if not cheer for, violence.
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