this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 8 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

It's important to note that while this seems counterintuitive, it's only the most efficient because the small squares' side length is not a perfect divisor of the large square's.

[–] jeff@programming.dev 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

What? No. The divisibility of the side lengths have nothing to do with this.

The problem is what's the smallest square that can contain 17 identical squares. If there were 16 squares it would be simply 4x4.

[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 8 points 7 hours ago

He's saying the same thing. Because it's not an integer power of 2 you can't have a integer square solution. Thus the densest packing puts some boxes diagonally.

[–] sga@lemmings.world 2 points 8 hours ago

this is regardless of that. The meme explains it a bit wierdly, but we start with 17 squares, and try to find most efficient packing, and outer square's size is determined by this packing.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 15 hours ago

the line of man is straight ; the line of god is crooked

stop quoting Nietzsche you fucking fools

[–] SpongyAneurysm@feddit.org 4 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Now, canwe have fractals built from this?

[–] Lemmisaur@lemmy.zip 8 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Say hello to the creation! .-D

(Don't ask about the glowing thing, just don't let it touch your eyes.)

[–] SpongyAneurysm@feddit.org 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Good job. It'skinda what I expected, except for the glow. But I won't ask about that.

[–] BowtiesAreCool@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

The glow is actually just a natural biproduct of the sheer power of the sq1ua7re

[–] mEEGal@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

"fractal" just means "broken-looking" (as in "fracture"). see Benoît Mandelbrot's original book on this

I assume you mean "nice looking self-replicating pattern", which you can easily obtain by replacing each square by the whole picture over and over again

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 174 points 1 day ago (2 children)

With straight diagonal lines.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 70 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] pyre@lemmy.world 47 points 1 day ago

hey it's no longer June, homophobia is back on the menu

[–] davidgro@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Why are there gaps on either side of the upper-right square? Seems like shoving those closed (like the OP image) would allow a little more twist on the center squares.

[–] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

there's a gap on both, just in different places and you can get from one to the other just by sliding. The constraints are elsewhere so wouldn't allow you to twist.

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[–] superb@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 1 day ago

I think this diagram is less accurate. The original picture doesn’t have that gap

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[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 145 points 1 day ago

Oh so you're telling me that my storage unit is actually incredibly well optimised for space efficiency?

Nice!

[–] Squalia@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 day ago

Here's a much more elegant solution for 17

[–] Psaldorn@lemmy.world 51 points 1 day ago

You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like.

[–] janus2@lemmy.zip 77 points 1 day ago (1 children)

if I ever have to pack boxes like this I'm going to throw up

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[–] a_party_german@hexbear.net 58 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Why can't it be stacked up normally? I don't understand.

[–] bilb@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

You could arrange them that way, but the goal is to find the way to pack the small squares in a way that results in the smallest possible outer square. In the solution shown, the length of one side of the outer square is just a bit smaller than 12. If you pack them normally, the length would be larger than 12. (1 = the length of one side of the smaller squares.)

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[–] peteypete420@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Is this confirmed? Like yea the picture looks legit, but anybody do this with physical blocks or at least something other than ms paint?

[–] deaf_fish@midwest.social 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

It is confirmed. I don't understand it very well, but I think this video is pretty decent at explaining it.

https://youtu.be/RQH5HBkVtgM

The proof is done with raw numbers and geometry so doing it with physical objects would be worse, even the MS paint is a bad way to present it but it's easier on the eyes than just numbers.

Mathematicians would be very excited if you could find a better way to pack them such that they can be bigger.

So it's not like there is no way to improve it. It's just that we haven't found it yet.

[–] crmsnbleyd@sopuli.xyz 8 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Proof via "just look at it"

[–] peteypete420@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago

I feel like the pixalation on the rotated squares is enough to say this picture is not proof.

Again I am not saying they are wrong, just that it would be extremely easy make a picture where it looks like all the squares are all the same size.

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 10 points 17 hours ago

Visual proofs can be deceptive, e.g. the infinite chocolate bar.

If there was a god, I'd imagine them designing the universe and giggling like an idiot when they made math.

[–] fargeol@lemmy.world 44 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Bees seeing this: "OK, screw it, we're making hexagons!"

[–] raltoid@lemmy.world 30 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Fun fact: Bees actually make round holes, the hexagon shape forms as the wax dries.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 hours ago

But fear not, bees are still smart! Mfs can do math!

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[–] LoreleiSankTheShip@lemmy.ml 38 points 1 day ago (15 children)

Can someone explain to me in layman's terms why this is the most efficient way?

[–] tiramichu@sh.itjust.works 141 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

These categories of geometric problem are ridiculously difficult to find the definitive perfect solution for, which is exactly why people have been grinding on them for decades, and mathematicians can't say any more than "it's the best one found so far"

For this particular problem the diagram isn't answering "the most efficient way to pack some particular square" but "what is the smallest square that can fit 17 unit-sized (1x1) squares inside it" - with the answer here being 4.675 unit length per side.

Trivially for 16 squares they would fit inside a grid of 4x4 perfectly, with four squares on each row, nice and tidy. To fit just one more square we could size the container up to 5x5, and it would remain nice and tidy, but there is then obviously a lot of empty space, which suggests the solution must be in-between. But if the solution is in between, then some squares must start going slanted to enable the outer square to reduce in size, as it is only by doing this we can utilise unfilled gaps to save space by poking the corners of other squares into them.

So, we can't answer what the optimal solution exactly is, or prove none is better than this, but we can certainly demonstrate that the solution is going to be very ugly and messy.

Another similar (but less ugly) geometric problem is the moving sofa problem which has again seen small iterations over a long period of time.

[–] DominatorX1@thelemmy.club 1 points 14 hours ago

For A problem like this. If I was going to do it with an algorithm I would just place shapes at random locations and orientations a trillion times.

It would be much easier with a discreet tile type system of course

[–] DozensOfDonner@mander.xyz 22 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Lol, the ambidextrous sofa. It's a butt plug.

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[–] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's not necessarily the most efficient, but it's the best guess we have. This is largely done by trial and error. There is no hard proof or surefire way to calculate optimal arrangements; this is just the best that anyone's come up with so far.

It's sort of like chess. Using computers, we can analyze moves and games at a very advanced level, but we still haven't "solved" chess, and we can't determine whether a game or move is perfect in general. There's no formula to solve it without exhaustively searching through every possible move, which would take more time than the universe has existed, even with our most powerful computers.

Perhaps someday, someone will figure out a way to prove this mathematically.

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[–] JoeTheSane@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

I hate this so much

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