this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2025
214 points (96.9% liked)

Games

42489 readers
1560 users here now

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Rules

1. Submissions have to be related to games

Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.

This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.

2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.

We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.

3. No excessive self-promotion

Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.

This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.

4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you're submitting before posting to see if it's already been posted.

We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.

5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.

No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.

6. No linking to piracy

Don't share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.

We don't want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.

Authorized Regular Threads

Related communities

PM a mod to add your own

Video games

Generic

Help and suggestions

By platform

By type

By games

Language specific

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 88 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

Yeah seems like the writer of the PC Gamer article doesn’t understand what VAT is.

To laymen like you and I, this situation probably seems pretty open and shut. If you make money on something, you pay taxes on it.

Yeah VAT is not a tax on money made. VAT is a tax that is applied to a transaction for goods and service between a business and a consumer. VAT is a tax that the consumer pays. The business only collects it and has the obligation to pay it to the tax services. So even if a business makes zero profit they still need to pay the VAT they collected.

The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.

[–] Thorry@feddit.org 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The real genius behind VAT is that it isn't just applied to transactions between business and consumer, but to all transactions. The rule is normally very simple, it's applied to all transactions, with few exceptions. The rate can vary, but those rules are also usually very simple. The trick is: When a business has a transaction with another business, VAT is still applied, but the selling party has to levy the tax and forward it to the government and the purchasing party can ask the government to give back the tax they paid on the transaction.

This may seem a bit convoluted, where the tax goes through the government only to end up back in the business. But this ensures the tax is applied always. Normally a profitable company would sell their products for more than the components they purchased. The difference between these two is the value added. And by getting back less from the purchases as what they have to pay for sales, the tax is only applied to the value added. And for consumers it functions as a sales tax, being applied to all transactions and no way around it.

This system is way harder to mess with than any other form of sales tax. The rules are simple with few exceptions and thus very easy to reinforce. It's also a more fair system, where each party in the chain pays a part instead of the consumer paying for all of it.

In the end the consumer pays most, but as the taxes are supposed to be used to make their lives better, it seems like a fair deal? Now if you have a government that's more about filling their own pockets than actually doing what they need to do to improve the lives of the people living there, well then you are going to have a bad day. But that doesn't happen in civilized countries right?

[–] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

VAT fraud is harder but my god when some people achieved it they pretty much unlocked a money spawn glitch IRL...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_trader_fraud?wprov=sfla1

[–] Thorry@feddit.org 7 points 3 days ago

Yeah EU VAT opened up a whole can of issues. It's super complicated and annoying, with all sorts of weird exceptions. The exact opposite of what VAT was supposed to be. EU countries should have just gotten their shit together instead of this patch work.

I've actually seen that fraud in action. People used to ship around huge amounts of phones and CPUs, because they were high value, but took up very little room. A truck full of pallets of tray CPUs could be worth a huge amount.

I think now most of the holes are patched. But for a while there were special rules surrounding phones and CPUs just because they were often used in the fraud scheme.

[–] MBech@feddit.dk 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

If Runescape gold is legal tender, do I have to pay taxes on my earnings from my Zulrah grind?

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Probably income tax or a gambling tax like what you’d pay if you win money one a game show. But there is a threshold, so tax free for small earnings.

[–] commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago

Yeah, that's why they added the GE tax

[–] brsrklf@jlai.lu 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.

Even if they went that way (good luck with that), doesn't that mean farming gold regularly and for profit should still be registered as a professional activity? Or at least the result of it declared as revenue?

I don't think they want that.

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

Of course he still needs to pay income tax. But that’s something else from VAT.

[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Speaks greatly for the quality of pcgamer. Guess the schools in the USA aren't the very best.

[–] mushroomman_toad@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

to be fair, I don't think any US state has VAT.

[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

AFAIK they do? Different even in every state.

[–] elephantium@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Many US states have sales tax, but I don't think it counts as VAT.

[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago

Ah right, just a sales-tax. I should've shut up 😁

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 40 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Earning 400,000€ in two years makes you part of the 1% though?? Where else would this guy be? Upper middle class?

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Okay that's not nothing but 200 000€ / year is hardly top 1% in EU, I think.

This is what slop gave me:

Based on available data on income distribution in Europe, a rough estimate for a gross annual individual salary to be in the top 1% across the EU would likely fall above €200,000.

When I asked how much you'd need to make in a year to be in EU top 1%. Didn't even mention 200 000.

So yeah upper class but not necessarily top 1%. In Lithuania they're probably top1% but not on the EU level.

Sorry for being pedantic, you were close enough tho

According to the German (I have not found an EU equivalent) office for statistics, you are part of the top 1% of full-time workers if you earn >213,286€ per year:

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2025/04/PD25_134_621.html

Sure, this doesn't include billionaires who don't work but there just aren't enough of them to matter. It's not like there are hundreds of thousands billionaires in Germany.

[–] vane@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago

Food safety organs need to inspect all those Stardew Valley farms.

[–] truthfultemporarily@feddit.org 25 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is actually really interesting!

This taxable individual, Kokott explains, was found to have bought and resold through "various forums, groups, and platforms such as Facebook, Discord, and Skype" enough RuneScape gold to earn €415,484—approximately $488,000 USD—between 2021 and 2023.

They then were ordered to backpay VAT because they made above 45k. Defendant says trading virtual currencies is like trading crypto, and VAT exempt. Government says its like selling a voucher instead.

Its corner cases like this one that make taxes complicated for regular people.

I also find it hilarious that tax lawyers and accountants will have to read that court decision.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 3 days ago

Shit, sounds like I should set up some runescape bots to sell gold, even if I only get like 10k USD a year, that's doubling my income

I dunno about the tax laws here. Seems anything purchased in game with fake game money that stays in game shouldn’t be subject to a sales tax. Buying game currency with real currency? Sure. Buying real things by selling in-game accounts or items for real money? Fine.

[–] msage@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago

advocate general at the Court of Justice of the European Union Juliane Kokott

Anyone from Czech/Slovak Republic here?

I know it's infantile, but.

[–] ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Can I get taxed if I buy a gf for 25k?

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah you pay VAT because you are buying a service. But your “gf” has to collect it and pay it to the tax agency.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You don’t pay VAT on a personal transaction though. But the girlfriend would probably have to pay income tax.

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago

We should know if the gf is selling herself as a second hand sale or if it's a recurring economic activity. If so, she should register in VAT and collect it.

(Legality of that economic activity may differ by country)

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 1 points 3 days ago

Depending on the country, and depending on the gift, yes. Though it's mostly not enforced.

[–] Gonzako@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Damn, good use of their time! Not going after trillionaries, no.

[–] Someplaceunknown@leminal.space 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)
[–] commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 days ago

OSRS is legit on its way to become bigger than it was in 2007 on miniclip days, it broke 250k players recently I believe, there's also been a WoW streamer exodus towards OSRS too

So yes

[–] crumbguzzler5000@feddit.org 4 points 3 days ago

Yer god damn right it does! Nostalgia is a helluva drug.