baby me, reading like 10000 pages of military theory and shopping gas masks for a month before my first protest
RPGMemes
Humor, jokes, memes about TTRPGs
I feel like sometimes people refuse to "meta game" in a way that is also metagaming, except targeting bad outcomes instead of good.
Like your characters live in a world with trolls. They're not a secret. Choosing to intentionally avoid fire because "that's metagaming" is also metagaming. You're using your out of character knowledge (fire is effective) and then avoiding it.
Usually cleared up with a "hey dm, what are common knowledge and myths about this stuff? or whatever.
That's true. I also often got:"My character is actively avoiding every other character as well as engaging with the multiple plot hooks dangling right in front of them, because they have a busy social life, a day job and are naturally suspicious of anything new. No, I want to play. It's just what my character would do."
That's also a kind of almost metagaming, because they know, as a player, that they can only pull that crap, because another player or the DM will have to do all the extra work of bringing the party together and on track.
I've had players do that kind of counter-productive behavior. I usually tell them that we're here to engage with the game's premise. If the game's premise was "we're going to rob a bank", your character needs to have reasons to engage with that. You can write a book about Jimmy the Marketer that works a 9 to 5 and has a rich social life, but that's not what we're here to explore.
If i'm running the game, I really make sure to hammer on this stuff during session 0. I also don't typically approve "you all met in a tavern" setups. Your characters should have history together when we start. I don't want to have to handwave "wait, why would i trust this guy I just met to take first watch?" again
I gave subverted 'you all met in a tavern' in some fun ways, but I will jot run it straight.
Yes. It's so annoying. A lot of good roleplaying is imagining a way your character would have/know something. Obviously you can take it too far, but it's an important skills for keeping the game moving. Like, say one character is obviously falling for some sort of trap by a doppelganger. OOC you either know or are suspicious, but IC you don't. You want to go with them so they aren't alone. But you can't just say that. Say something like, "I'll tag along, I'm getting stir crazy and could go for a walk." It's technically metagaming but it's a very different situation than doing something like telling that character not to go because the other person is suspicious when you genuinely have no reason to think they are.
Another good example of metagaming that so many people view as okay that they don't even view it as metagaming is telling your party OOC how many hit points you have remaining the healer choosing who to heal and with what spells based on the information. Your character doesn't know that number. A lot of times all you really know IC is if someone has less than half of their hit points remaining and a vague idea that barbarians can take more hits than wizards.
Obviously there are scenarios where this doesn't hold but I find in general that metagaming which benefits everyone, doesn't completely ruin encounters, and is done with an excuse that your character would actually reasonably do is typically okay.
Another example. I remember in one game we were trying to open a creaky rusty door quietly. Someone asked if anyone had oil. We all checked our inventory and nobody did. He explained that my character in heavy armor would likely have some because regular maintenance of it would require that. Which seemed fine. The DM agreed. So my character hands his character some oil.
I'll tag along
I quite like this when characters are in relatively safe spaces, cities and the like, especially in sci fi settings with little or no magic, so they leave their laser proof armour and serious guns behind and have only a pistol and effectively 1 hit point against serious weapons.
Makes the trap triggering exciting. Hope your mind state backup is recent in case of a couple of bad rolls
It's funny. I know a lot of players who think like you, but I and many others go in the completely opposite direction. The tension in my combat encounters has increased significantly since my group and I started to only give vague health info. Suddenly, it's a surprise agin when a character goes down and you can almost feel the tension every round when another hidden death save is rolled!
Eh, I know nothing about how to handle most dangerous animals, even ones that live in my area; I'd imagine that even in a world with trolls, regular people wouldn't know anything about them.
If your character is a seasoned adventurer or monster enthusiast, sure, light it up, but if your backstory places you as the village baker for most of your life, running in with alchemist's fire at the ready seems a bit strange.
Ultimately I'd consider it to be on the GM's shoulders - if the only way your group is going to survive the troll encounter is with fire, then put an NPC in the local tavern who warms newcomers of a troll in the area, recommending that they have a lit torch at the ready.
Counterpoint, fire was historically used to drive away predators and is commonly depicted in movies as well. A random townsfolk may not know all the particulars, but put fire between the bad thing and yourself is a reasonable strategy for most monsters. It becomes a metagaming problem if it's only done against monsters that don't resist fire.
Metagaming kills the game!
I took some very silly decisions because that’s how I thought the character would behave. Only once did I regret it: I made too shy a character and that made for a boring trip. Usually, it was a lot of fun. Honorable mention: being flown away by an angry dragon that I knew would be defeated soon without my character’s intervention, but my character obviously didn’t care. So they went >splat<. Worthy death at the end of a campaign!
Person on the left is calculating every move and winning battles so the other one can be a careless goober (also they're dating)
If your playing a dumb character, then rolling through troll canyon without doing research first is exactly what that character would do...
Respect for the RPing...
Best of both worlds: Always role play a tactician or veteran if you have a lot of game knowledge and you want to use it.
Play an idiot when you are playing a game set in a world or using a system you are completely unfamiliar with.
if your headed to a place called troll canyon you should probably do some research on what trolls are weak to beforehand
"Don't worry, it's just a name!"
Gets attacked by trolls.
"I thought it was just a name!"
Troll canyon is actually a ravine
Yeah people complaining about "fire on trolls" as metagaming is a huge bugbear of mine because it's so ubiquitous across RPGs that it's virtually part of the definition of what a fantasy troll is. Imagine actually living in a world where they exist, becoming a professional mercenary, and still not knowing you need fire.
As GM I'd accept that argument from a person with a smart enough player, but not from one whose intelligence attracts penalties and not from one whose background is from an island or at sea or a city rat
In some settings I might have monsters like trolls only in some parts of the world, so you're out of luck if you're not from those places unless you read a lot (and if my group is prone to metagaming, change the monster's weakness)
obligatory pathfinder fixes that
pf2e has an action called recall knowledge that lets you roll to see if your character knows something about something. in this case, player could ask if trolls have any weaknesses, and roll a recall knowledge check using society (trolls are humanoid) and they might be able to learn about the trolls' fire weakness
Plenty of systems have something for that, often with a variety of options.
A bookish Exalted character might roll Intelligence + Lore to remember having learned about the weakness to fire before. Or maybe Intelligence + Occult if the weakness is supernatural in nature. A combat-oriented character might roll Wits + War to deduce that fire is needed based on the knowledge of old battle reports involving trolls. Maybe even something involving Survival if they're familiar with a region trolls can appear in.
A game with a flexible skill system has a lot of room for such things.
Without looking it up, I'm fairly certain that Arcana, Nature, and maybe even Survival checks can all be employed to fill this "character knowledge" confirmation, and have always been used for this and more. 🤦🏼♂️
Ok, I'll throw my hat in the ring.
Metagaming is fine, actually.
Obviously, don't read the module you're a player in, but knowing to use fire on trolls is just basic game knowledge. It's ok to be good at the game, because it is a game. If you're playing dungeons and dragons, or pathfinder, or any other rpg that spends most of the pages on combat rules, then you're playing a tactics game. I like tactics games (I'm not good at them, but that's a separate conversation).
I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to come up with a brilliant plan to do a thing, and then be told that I'm not allowed to do it because me figuring out the puzzle is metaknowlede.
It is exclusively in the tabletop rpg space that being good at the game is considered a bad thing. It's in a similar vein that I hate tutorials in video games, especially when I'm being prevented from doing things that I already know how to do (because I've been playing games for multiple decades now and I have some amount of media literacy) for no other reason than the game hasn't taught me yet. So arbitrarily, I'm not allowed to use fire damage on the trolls until some npc tells me that trolls are weak to fire? That's asinine.
If you want to play let's pretend with dice, that's fine. just be honest about the kind of game that you're running from the get go so I know not to join your table.
It's really as simple as asking your GM if your character would know this. "Hey GM, would my character know if the troll is weak to fire?" and you'll either get "No, your character is unfamiliar with this region and it creatures" or "Yes, your friend in the town guard recited his tale of falling such a beast at your last posting". A lot of people enjoy this game to role-play, and using knowledge your character wouldn't have can take the fun out of it.