12k is still too high.
this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2025
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My thoughts exactly
I get why Americans might still buy them. But why the actual fuck would someone from the EU buy a Tesla now?
I don't get why Americans would still buy them but then again I'm not a Nazi or pedo
I realize this isn't a real question but the US doesn't have access to the cheap Chinese cars
The US has access to lots of cheap used EVs. What’s holding up American adoption isn’t cost, it is propaganda and charger access for renters.
They also don't have access to quality European cars without steep tariffs.
The US market is massively favoring American cars. Meaning they can only have shitty expensive American cars.
I just bought a used 4 year old VW ID.4 with 120.000 km (75.000 miles) on it, not a squeak to hear when I drive it. with Tesla they make noises already when delivered new from the factory!! At least the ones we get in Denmark do.
the US has very little choice in the EV space. Tesla is the cheapest and most technologically advanced. Anything else you buy here has some sort of compromise compared to the comparable Tesla product. I’d buy Renault if they weren’t banned here in the US.
0% finance which most other car companies don't offer.
Fleet buyers getting massive discounts probably
I see Teslas on the road here in England, but seldom one that looks new. The new EVs I see are Kias, Renaults, MGs, and a small but growing number of BYDs. Once in a while you'll see a new Jaguar EV or Polestar.
Not everybody reads the news or is online a lot.
Who is still buying from Elon at this point?
Also, why aren't we buying European or Japanese EVs? Where are they?
There are no competitive Japanese EVs. European EVs are basically only available as premium brands outside of Europe.
There are no competitive Japanese EVs
Gonna have to agree there.
Years ago, I thought Toyota would pivot and become a forerunner in the EV revolution. They already put electric motors in their cars, they had hybrid versions of nearly everything they made a decade ago already!
Now it's been over a decade since Tesla made EVs an actual thing you could drive in the public's eyes... and the only electric Toyota that's not a van, that I can buy right now, is still the bZ4X which was kinda uninspiring when it came out.. let alone now.
At least earlier European electric cars (Volvo, BMW, Audi mostly) have started depreciating enough that they're in my ballpark now. I don't want to pay 30k EUR for a car that costs 30k EUR new, but I'll pay 30k EUR for a car that was 80k just 2-3 years ago. It's just one of my quirks, I want to get as much car as possible for as little money as possible, and to make up for it, I'll do my own repairs on formerly expensive, complex European automobiles.
Toyota went all in on hybrids and hydrogen. Which isn’t available outside of California.
There are many advantages to hybrids over EVs, especially plug-in hybrids. In many scenarios PHEVs are not only more convenient/viable than EVs, they're cleaner than EVs over the vehicle's lifespan too. Think: shorter daily trips, mostly runs on electricity but with a smaller battery, in a scenario where electricity production comes from combustion.
For a majority of the world hybrids simply make way more sense, and that will continue to be the case for a decade at least. While I personally would prefer an EV for myself, I'm glad that Toyota is prioritising hybrids.
There are some unfortunate facts to consider.
- PHEVs get nowhere near the claimed CO2 emissions because a lot of people simply don't charge them
- PHEVs that DO get used mostly as EVs can develop issues with the ICE not being used enough (cars are funny: parts that are supposed to move, wear when they move, but also don't like it when they don't get to move enough)
- Okay, cool, you like PHEVs. Toyota now finally has options for you on that front (They even lagged with that, at least here in Europe they had mostly non-plugin hybrids for the longest time), but what about the people who'd like to cut their emissions now rather than in 2040? Toyota offers them no viable solutions unless they want a BZ4X which is a boring box. Which is what Toyota has always done, but here's the thing: The boring Toyota box was always more reliable than the non-boring competition. With EVs this is no longer such a clear-cut case, as the most important bits get an 8 year warranty from nearly everyone, and there's no quad-turbo setup to go wrong on BMW EVs, no expensive timing chains on Audi EVs, etc. THe BZ4X doesn't really stand out in anything.
Why do you need Toyota specifically to make EVs?
I don't. I'm gonna keep buying European cars. I was replying to the person who said Japanese manufacturers are no longer competitive when it comes to EVs, then you came in and implied it's better that they focus on hybrids instead of EVs.
I responded to your expectation that Toyota should have become a leader for full EVs. I just tried to explain why I think it makes sense for them to keep doing what they're good at, which is hybrids. But overall I agree with the points you made, and I think lots of people like Toyota for being no-nonsense and reliable, and some of those people (like you and me) prefer EVs. I'm sure they will make some EVs soon enough though.
Well my expectation was less "what I needed them to do" and more "they could've done this and forced the industry to modernize faster because they would've had the upper hand, so why didn't they"
But I think all the Japanese manufacturers just... Went really conservative. They used to experiment more, but I feel like in the 00s they just started focusing on what they know will sell well.
Toyota made a huge mistake going all in on hybrid cars.
Hybrids are not a bad transitional technology, and Toyota's hybrids are better than anyone else's. Their much bigger strategic mistake was sinking hundreds of millions into developing hydrogen-powered cars that nobody wanted, at the neglect of building up EV expertise.
The problem with hydrogen isn't that no one wants the cars, it's that it fundamentally makes no sense.
And it never will.
Not true. They had record sales on their hybrids.
And still do. They're also about to release their solid state batteries, leapfrogging over lithium ion packs, which seems like the way to go considering people want more than 200-300 miles of range out of their vehicles.
I thought they gambled on the hydrogen car?
Yeah they did, and lost their shirts.
I see plenty of Nissan Leafs on the roads. Sweden, EU.
The leaf is uncompetitive in the US at least because it still uses chademo charging, which is really outdated and will disappear
SpaceX. No joke, Elon is just selling Cyber trucks to his other companies to pump up the sales numbers.
Nazis with money. That's who
Who is still buying from Elon at this point?
Lots and lots of people.
If you drive around large cities, particularly on the west coast of the US you will be in a goddamn ocean of Teslas.
It's nothing to do with Musk, most people are totally checked out of politics, it's about demand and choices. There are other electrics that people are buying but Teslas have the largest market and thus most deals, most service, and most options, and people are absolutely starving for electric options.
Don't let the pandering memes fool you into thinking the situation is dire for Tesla or something, they're still leading the electric market and more and more people want the things, particularly people who do gig work or drive to work every day.
I used to want one, but I would never give the clown a dime so I'm patiently waiting for the next big deal in electrics.
Which is why I want there to be more European and Japanese EVs. Why must this market be entirely in the hands of Musk and China?
Marketing. With Tesla, you're buying a future and a promise, and anyone criticizes Tesla also wants that future to not happen.
Keep on "Winning", you nazi.
That aren't skipping Teslas because of the car, they just don't want to do give Musk their money.
In a company with a LOT of problems, he is the company's biggest problem, by far, and as long as he helms the company, it will continue its slide. Ejecting him from all control of the company is the only chance that Tesla has to survive, although it is probably already too late.
With him, I predict that Tesla will be bankrupt within two years.
they just don’t want to do give Musk their money.
In large cities Tesla's are still common as fuck, even cybertrucks, the market is starved for electric vehicles and buyers want choices but there still aren't enough.
If you drive around the west coast, you will see Teslas and other electrics around you all the time all around you in growing numbers, it's not slowing down and Tesla ain't going out of business anytime soon, so please, for the love of factual reality, let's not buy into the pandering memes.
Those are all MAGAs, or people who bought them before Musk irreparably destroyed his reputation. Sales are way, way down EVERYWHERE in the world, they are getting worse, and they aren't coming back. You are seeing so many of them because people can't get rid of them because they have absolutely no resale value, nobody wants them. Most Tesla buyers would dump them if they could, but even Tesla won't take them back in trade. There is no market for them, used or new.
If Musk hadn't dismantled the agencies that were investigating his products, they'd probably already be prohibited from building any more, until they meet regulatory compliance.
The article is about the EU market, of course you're going to see more Teslas in a country that has 100% tariffs on the largest competitors.
I'm in the UK and I'm astounded at how many 2024/2025 Teslas there are in this country, and I'm an hour out of London so not even a city :(
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It's 2035. Chinese EVs are still banned in the US market. The Trumpist regime still hasn't provided suitable alternative modes of transportation and the air is unbreathable. I have just snucked out of a San Diego harbor with a BYD electric hatchback. Life is good.
I have just snucked out of a San Diego harbor with a BYD electric hatchback
You must tell us your secrets oh ninja of the wharf
The Trumpist regime still hasn't provided suitable alternative modes of transportation and the air is unbreathable.
They'll have it in a few weeks, ok? /s
Quick give Elon more money!
Aint even suprised. Asian automotive companies have always cancelled USA produced vehicles in the long run so far. It's the result of expensive junk that just about works, but just barely vs cheap but working.
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