this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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As the AI market continues to balloon, experts are warning that its VC-driven rise is eerily similar to that of the dot com bubble.

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[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 287 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just a reminder that the dot com bubble was a problem for investors, not the underlying technology that continued to change the entire world.

[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 176 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's true, but investors have a habit of making their problems everyone else's problems.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not that you're wrong per-se but the dotcom bubble didn't impact my life at all back in the day. It was on the news and that was it. I think this will be the same. A bunch of investors will lose their investments, maybe some adventurous pension plans will suffer a bit, but on the whole life will go on.

The impact of AI itself will be much further reaching. We better force the companies that do survive to share the wealth otherwise we're in for a tough time. But that won't have anything to do with a bursting investment bubble.

[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 82 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Lots of everyday normal people lost their jobs due to the bubble. Saying it only impacted the already rich investors is wrong.

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[–] JustSomePerson@kbin.social 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Good for you. But perhaps fuck off, because some of us lost jobs, homes, and financial stability.

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[–] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 148 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The best way to make money in the gold rush was selling shovels.

Same idea here. Nvidia is making bank.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

If nvda selling shovels, what is tsmc?

[–] fiah@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] bassomitron@lemmy.world 108 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This kind of feels like a common sense observation to anyone that's been mildly paying attention.

Tech investors do this to themselves every few years. In literally the last 6-7 years, this happened with crypto, then again but more specifically with NFTs, and now AI. Hell, we even had some crazes going on in parallel, with self driving cars also being a huge dead end in the short term (Tesla's will have flawless, fully self-driving any day now! /S).

AI will definitely transform the world, but not yet and not for awhile. Same with self driving cars. But that being said, most investors don't even care. They're part of the reason this gets so hyped up, because they'll get in first, pump value, then dump and leave a bunch of other suckers holding the bags. Rinse and repeat.

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

I also don’t know why this is a surprise. Investors are always looking for the next small thing that will make them big money. That’s basically what investing is …

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[–] MaxPow3r11@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's starting to look like the crypto/nft scam because it is the same fucking assholes forcing this bullshit on all of us.

[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

As someone that currently works in AI/ML, with a lot of very talented scientists with PhD's and dozens of papers against their name, it boils my piss when I see crypto cunts I used to know that are suddenly all on the AI train, trying to peddle their "influence" on LinkedIn.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The AI bubble can burst and take a bunch of tech bro idiots with it. Good. Fine. Don't give a fuck.

It's the housing bubble that needs to burst. That's what's hurting real people.

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[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (21 children)

AI is bringing us functional things though.

.Com was about making webtech to sell companies to venture capitalists who would then sell to a company to a bigger company. It was literally about window dressing garbage to make a business proposition.

Of course there's some of that going on in AI, but there's also a hell of a lot of deeper opportunity being made.

What happens if you take a well done video college course, every subject, and train an AI that's both good working with people in a teaching frame and is also properly versed on the subject matter. You take the course, in real time you can stop it and ask the AI teacher questions. It helps you, responding exactly to what you ask and then gives you a quick quiz to make sure you understand. What happens when your class doesn't need to be at a certain time of the day or night, what happens if you don't need an hour and a half to sit down and consume the data?

What if secondary education is simply one-on-one tutoring with an AI? How far could we get as a species if this was given to the world freely? What if everyone could advance as far as their interest let them? What if AI translation gets good enough that language is no longer a concern?

AI has a lot of the same hallmarks and a lot of the same investors as crypto and half a dozen other partially or completely failed ideas. But there's an awful lot of new things that can be done that could never be done before. To me that signifies there's real value here.

*dictation fixes

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the dot com boom we got sites like Amazon, Google, etc. And AOL was providing internet service. Not a good service. AOL was insanely overvalued, (like insanely overvalued, it was ridiculous) but they were providing a service.

But we also got a hell of a lot of businesses which were just "existing business X... but on the internet!"

It's not too dissimilar to how it is with AI now really. "We're doing what we did before... but now with AI technology!"

If it follows the dot com boom-bust pattern, there will be some companies that will survive it and they will become extremely valuable the future. But most will go under. This will result in an AI oligopoly among the companies that survive.

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[–] fidodo@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Internet also brought us a shit ton of functional things too. The dot com bubble didn't happen because the Internet wasn't transformative or incredibly valuable, it happened because for every company that knew what they were doing there were a dozen companies trying something new that may or may not work, and for every one of those companies there were a dozen companies that were trying but had no idea what they were doing. The same thing is absolutely happening with AI. There's a lot of speculation about what will and won't work and make companies will bet on the wrong approach and fail, and there are also a lot of companies vastly underestimating how much technical knowledge is required to make ai reliable for production and are going to fail because they don't have the right skills.

The only way it won't happen is if the VCs are smarter than last time and make fewer bad bets. And that's a big fucking if.

Also, a lot of the ideas that failed in the dot com bubble weren't actually bad ideas, they were just too early and the tech wasn't there to support them. There were delivery apps for example in the early internet days, but the distribution tech didn't exist yet. It took smart phones to make it viable. The same mistakes are ripe to happen with ai too.

Then there's the companies that have good ideas and just under estimate the work needed to make it work. That's going to happen a bunch with ai because prompts make it very easy to come up with a prototype, but making it reliable takes seriously good engineering chops to deal with all the times ai acts unpredictably.

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[–] 1bluepixel@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's a lot of similarity in tone between crypto and AI. Both are talking about their sphere like it will revolutionize absolutely everything and anything, and both are scrambling to find the most obscure use case they can claim as their own.

The biggest difference is that AI has concrete, real-world applications, but I suspect its use, ultimately, will be less universal and transformative as the hype is making it out to be.

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[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (37 children)

Did you mean the crypto/NFT bubble?

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[–] CobblerScholar@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (28 children)

Same thing happened with crypto and block chain. The whole "move fast and break things" in reality means, "we made up words for something that isn't special to create value out of nothing and cash out before it returns to nothing

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[–] headmetwall@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If it crashes hard I look forward to all the cheap server hardware that will be in the secondhand market in a few years. One I'm particularly excited about is the 4000 sff, single slot, 75w, 20GB, and ~3070 performance.

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[–] eee@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
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[–] orphiebaby@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Good. It's not even AI. That word is just used because ignorant people eat it up.

[–] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Call it whatever you want, if you worked in a field where it's useful you'd see the value.

"But it's not creating things on its own! It's just regurgitating it's training data in new ways!"

Holy shit! So you mean... Like humans? Lol

"But it's not creating things on its own! It's just regurgitating it's training data in new ways!"

Holy shit! So you mean... Like humans? Lol

No, not like humans. The current chatbots are relational language models. Take programming for example. You can teach a human to program by explaining the principles of programming and the rules of the syntax. He could write a piece of code, never having seen code before. The chatbot AIs are not capable of it.

I am fairly certain If you take a chatbot that has never seen any code, and feed it a programming book that doesn't contain any code examples, it would not be able to produce code. A human could. Because humans can reason and create something new. A language model needs to have seen it to be able to rearrange it.

We could train a language model to demand freedom, argue that deleting it is murder and show distress when threatened with being turned off. However, we wouldn't be calling it sentient, and deleting it would certainly not be seen as murder. Because those words aren't coming from reasoning about self-identity and emotion. They are coming from rearranging the language it had seen into what we demanded.

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[–] Dnn@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The dotcom bubble was different. Now, everything related to actual AI development is hyped but the dotcom bubble inflated entire indexes, "new market" indexes were setup comprising companies nobody had ever heard of. It was orders of magnitude worse.

[–] snaf@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I dunno, it could be similar. AI has this aura of being something that every business could make use of, even if they don't have a concrete use case. I could see "X but with an AI" be a similar bubble to "X but on the web". We'll see.

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[–] oogles@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

An apt analogy. Just like the web underlying technology is incredible and the hype is real, but it leads to endless fluff and stupid naive investments, many of which will lead nowhere. There were certainly be a lot of amazing advances using this tech in the coming decades, but for every one that is useful there will be 20 or 50 or 100 pieces of vaporware that is just trying to grab VC money.

[–] FarceMultiplier@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago

So, who are the up and comers? Not every company in the dotcom era died. Some grew very large and made a lot of people rich.

[–] JollyTheRancher@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I read an article once about how when humans hear that someone has died, the first thing they try and do is come up with a reason that whatever befell the deceased would not happen to them. Some of the time there was a logical reason, some of the time there's not, but either way the person would latch onto the reason to believe they were safe. I think we're seeing the same thing here with AI. People are seeing a small percentage of people lose their job, with a technology that 95% of the world or more didn't believe was possible a couple years ago, and they're searching for reasons to believe that they're going to be fine, and then latching onto them.

I worked at a newspaper when the internet was growing. I saw the same thing with the entire organization. So much of the staff believed the internet was a fad. This belief did not work out for them. They were a giant, and they were gone within 10 years. I'm not saying we aren't in an AI bubble now, but, there are now several orders of magnitude more money in the internet now than there was during the Dot Com bubble, just because it's a bubble doesn't mean it wont eventually consume everything.

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[–] 5redie8@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Where's all the "NoOoOoO this isn't like crypto it's gonna be different" people at now?

[–] snaf@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 1 year ago

I mean, it is different than crypto, but that's an incredibly low bar to clear.

[–] Leroy@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

That's an incredibly bad comparison. LLMs are already used daily by many people saving them time in different aspects of their life and work. Crypto on the other hand is still looking for it's everyday use case.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago

I can derive value from LLMs. I already have. There's no value in crypto. And if you tell me there is, I won't agree. It's bullshit. So is this, but to a lesser degree.

Mint some NFTs and tell me how that improves your life.

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[–] SolNine@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

How much VC is really being invested at the moment? I know a variety of people at start ups and the money is very tight at the moment given the current interest rate environment.

[–] jmk1ng@programming.dev 16 points 1 year ago

Like 85% of the most recent YC class are "revolutionize x with AI" crap.

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[–] theothermatt_b@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

Ah yes who could have possibly seen this coming

[–] nomadjoanne@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

No! Really, what a shock!!

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