this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2026
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No Stupid Questions

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For reference, I have already told them why the sky has no stars (it's because of camera exposure, the moon surface is very reflective so lower exposure is used to not overexpose the image) and why the flag wasn't drooping down (there was an extending arm in the stand to hold it upright, as a flag drooping down is a sad flag). I have also explained that the videos of the moon landing were upscaled/remastered when they asked why the video quality of the clips were so good.

Currently, their main argument is the fact that the U.S. were able to do the moon landing in the mid 20th century while are experiencing delays for the current moon mission. They argue that, if the moon landing could be done way back then, with modern technology, it should be possible to quickly get back to the moon. They also argue NASA could have just reused the same designs as the Apollo missions if they actually went to the moon.

I have argued that NASA's budget is a fraction of what is used to be, and that the addition of new modern technologies introduces additional parts that could break and thus need to be tested. I have also mentioned that the Soviet Union would immediately call out the US if they faked the moon landing, and that samples of moon rocks were sent to Soviet scientists to study and verify. They insist that the Soviets were scared of what the US would do if they spoke out against a fake moon landing, which I didn't agree with (given they were both nuclear superpowers)

They then argued that it's impossible to tell whether the moon rocks are actually from the moon landing, they could be samples collected by rovers. I responded that no rovers had successfully collected moon rocks at the time, and then they switched to arguing that it's impossible to verify the rocks are from the moon. I followed up by saying there are methods of doing that (through the composition of the rocks and such). They then asked how anybody knows what moon rocks look like if nobody else has been to the moon, and I got kind of stumped. I tried to explain that there are models to how the moon formed, how we know the rocks aren't from Earth, satellites that map out the surface, etc., but they reiterated that no one can "prove" that they were from the moon without going there in the first place.

One interesting thing they also mentioned is that, if the US really did do a moon landing, why the Soviets (during cold war era) or Chinese (in modern era) didn't do what they do best and copied their designs to land on the moon. Given that the US and China are having a new space race with the goal of being the first to establish a lunar base, they argue that China could just copy the Apollo program designs if the US really did do a moon landing.

To summarise, their main points/questions right now are: a) Explain why the US hasn't gone back in so long, and why with modern technology it seems so difficult? (especially given that NASA has been experiencing numerous delays in the Artemis missions, that certainly hasn't given them a good impression...) b) How do you verify moon rocks without having actually been on the moon? How did scientists figure out what a moon rock looks like? c) Why aren't the old Apollo designs being reused for a moon landing? (by either the Americans or the Chinese)

They say that there isn't strong evidence either side (but believes that it is false, saying that "we will see" once someone else lands on the moon)

And what other points can I bring up to definitively say, yes, the moon landing wasn't faked?

edit:

Another thing, they also can't believe that astronauts could bring and ride the little moon buggies. I am also partially interested in how that was achieved to be honest!

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[–] Ryoae@piefed.social 1 points 5 days ago

You are wasting your breath with someone who is dead set in whatever they believe. They won't be convinced until you're converted.

[–] infinitevalence@discuss.online 118 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You cannot argue with stupid, dont bother.

[–] jaennaet@sopuli.xyz 46 points 1 week ago (4 children)

This'd be my answer. A friend (former at this point) of mine fell down a conspiracist rabbit hole, and at one point started insisting the moon landings were faked. Now, I happen to know a lot (or more than most, anyhow) about the Apollo program, and absolutely nothing I could say helped. Either they pivoted to some new bullshit argument they'd heard on some YouTube video, or just dismissed things as lies when convenient.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

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[–] Archer@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Even better, one up them. “You think the Moon is real?!?”

[–] ttyybb@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You believe in the concept of a moon?

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[–] FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 70 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If it were faked, the Soviets would have had a field day. They didn't. If all the other facts didn't work, I find that most convincing. The nemesis had to accept it begrudgingly.

Between the 70s and today, the motivations for moon landings have changed. Back then: fuck the commies, we go first, and science. Turns out the moon isn't that interesting to continue sending people there. Rocks and dust, yawn. Not worth the ROI. The reason why there is renewed interest now is because people think realistically they can build a base on the moon. That was science fiction in 1969.

For your own mental health, give yourself a time frame and if they still think it's fake allow yourself to let it go. Chances are they don't want to be convinced and you have to let nature take its course and hope the seed of doubt you have planted comes to life and blossoms.

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[–] SlippiHUD@lemmy.world 59 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There is a mirror left on the moon you can shoot a laser at and have it bounced back to you, no other celestial object can do that. Its also foundational knowledge for gps.

https://wtop.com/science/2019/07/the-experiment-still-running-on-the-moon-and-tv-re-runs-50-years-later/

[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Their answer to that is "the mirror was placed by robots. We had the tech to get robots there, but not living people."

I've had to deal with these people before.

[–] jaennaet@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The answer my friend gave to that was "well have you tried this yourself? No? Well why do you believe there actually is a mirror there? It's just another NASA lie"

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

The response to that is to tell them, 'I thought you did your own resesech but now you balk at the idea of doing a resarch project to verify a claim, you don't want to do your own research, you want to believe lies.'

And if they say they dont have the capability to do that experiment, then retort they most certainly don't have the capability to do any of their own research.

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[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yep, the laser array is the definitive answer.

[–] jaennaet@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 week ago (4 children)

One would think, but like I just said in another comment, my conspiracist ex-friend's reply was “well have you tried this yourself? No? Well why do you believe there actually is a mirror there? It’s just another NASA lie”

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[–] NABDad@lemmy.world 55 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The moon landing was faked, but they hired Stanley Kubrick to direct the shoot, and he insisted that they film on location.

[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 week ago

Yay, it's catching on, I don't have to type it every time.

[–] Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 48 points 1 week ago

Don't bother arguing with stupid. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 39 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

theres retroreflectors on the moon that were intentionally. imstalled so that precise aiming of a laser would signify someone installed it on the moon if you saw the reflection back

theyre used to measure the moon earth distance but the fact that installation is there in that time period shows man was on the moon

[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Okay that is actually kind of cool. I never knew this was done! I am anticipating that they would ask whether they were placed by humans or rovers/landers/non-human methods, so was it possible (at the time) to put these retroreflectors on the moon without human intervention? I'm assuming, like the collection of moon rocks, it was not (otherwise why would they bother with having humans doing it with all that human error?)

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 10 points 1 week ago

To be fair (basically the only time I'll say that in reference to Moon landing deniers) there are also retroreflectors like those mounted on some of the unmanned landers and rovers that have been sent to the Moon as well. So this alone isn't going to "convince" him. It does indicate that the Americans were able to launch something to the Moon and land it at the same time that the Apollo missions were underway, so if you were dealing with a rational person who could be convinced by reason this would still count for something.

Unfortunately, I doubt that's what's going on here.

[–] Red_October@piefed.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Without the ability of a private person to verify that, though, it's no more persuasive than explaining all the other things we did up there.

And if the person is capable enough to actually use a laser to accurately target and measure the reflection of these retroreflectors, they're not a moon landing denier.

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[–] Tuuktuuk@nord.pub 36 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There was an interesting article about how the moon landings could have been faked with 1960's technology and it turns out you'd need such obscenely expensive equipment that just going to the actual moon would be the cheaper alternative.

The impossibility of faking the landing is a good proof IMO.

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[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Explain why the US hasn’t gone back in so long, and why with modern technology it seems so difficult?

The Apollo program took 4.5% of the US budget. NASA’s entire budget now—including space telescopes, earth satellites, and interplanetary probes—is less than half of one percent.

[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 week ago

Woah that is kind of insane, I did not know that the modern budget was that much lower! :0

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[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ask what proof would change their mind and show them. Then when their mind is not changed, you will understand

[–] VitoRobles@lemmy.today 16 points 1 week ago

This is it.

There's a movement post-BLM where it's not their job to explain racism to the ignorant. Very often, ignorant people refuse evidence. They waste everyone's time and energy.

[–] zxqwas@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago

Their arch enemy, the Soviet Union, congratulated them on the achievement. They would have loved to take the US down a peg or two.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Mock him for being incurious, stupid and failing google-fu.

Or show him some of these links, your call.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/space-astronomy/moon-landing-conspiracy-theories-debunked

https://starwalk.space/en/news/was-the-moon-landing-fake

https://askanexpert.asu.edu/earthspace/top-question/moon-landing

For the Artemis vs Apollo stuffs:

https://spaceinformer.com/artemis-vs-apollo-comparison/

https://apollo11space.com/apollo-vs-artemis-how-technology-and-goals-have-transformed-lunar-exploration/

And just to see how stupid he is, maybe ask if the earth is flat. If they say yes… just have him go watch this entire channel

The reason I’m calling him stupid is because he’s either never actually searched or done any kind of research beyond conspiracy theory memes, or has immediately discounted the vast majority of people patiently explaining why he’s wrong.

As for why china didn’t try to go… they didn’t have a space program until recently. As for the soviets? Well. Why go when we happily shared our research with them? One of the main motivations was propaganda. It was a sort of proxy war and we won. Beyond that, there wasn’t much point in duplicating efforts.

Another point of fact that many people don’t address is how impossible it would be to fake the radio transmissions without getting caught.

Something had to go to the moon. Tiny changes in antenna alignment were sufficient to cause a loss of contact with the CSM. (A fun movie about this is called The Dish and is based on a true story.)

The thing is that the CSM wasn’t going straight to the moon, it followed a transfer orbit that intersected both earth and the moons orbit (and at a time when the moon would be there!)

This path meant that you couldn’t just point an antenna at the moon.

It also meant that you had to keep a lock on the CSM’s path or risk losing it forever (The Dish, they almost lost it.)

HAMmies had their own rigs which could listen in, as did virtually every government.

The precision required to catch the signal meant you could track its location in real time.

It also means we have tons of recordings with the appropriate amount of signal lag.

And there would be no way to fake those signals by broadcasting from earth- everyone paying attention would know. if ever the entire world watched something that first landing was it.

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[–] BurgerBaron@piefed.social 19 points 1 week ago

You cannot successfully argue with a pigeon.

[–] matlag@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 week ago

No technical rational explanation will ever get to them.

Most are there because they want to belong to a community, and because they like the idea of being right where everyone else is wrong, so that they're the important ones for once.

That's how you get to them: feed their need to belong, and their need to find enough self-esteem some other way.

[–] HiTekRedNek@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago (4 children)

You can't use logic to talk someone out of a position they didn't use logic to decide on in the first place.

Those kinds of people should get nothing but scorn from the rest of us. No conversation, no attempting to change their minds.

Just pure, unadulterated scorn and derision. Nothing else. Fucking morons aren't useful for anything other than diluting the gene pool anyway.

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[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Aren't there reflectors in very specific places on the moon that will respond to high powered lights shown at them?

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[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Wait, y'all believe in the moon?

[–] jaennaet@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't even believe in y'all

[–] ChaosMonkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

I don't even believe in myself.

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[–] MarshallBravestarr@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

Ask them what type of evidence would convince them and go from there. If what they say is reasonable, present it. If not, then there's nothing that will convince them

[–] Peppycito@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The real conspiracy is that the moon landing was just a way to get the public to be enthusiastic about devolping weapon systems.

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[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My go-to is to just beg them to play Kerbal Space Program

They argue that, if the moon landing could be done way back then, with modern technology, it should be possible to quickly get back to the moon.

In the 1960s, getting to the moon was the most important thing in the solar system. The Soviet Union and the US spent ungodly amounts of money and risked uncountable lives in this endeavor. We did the thing, and now we've done the thing. We aren't willing to risk those lives or spend that money anymore. New missions have to be much, much cheaper and much, much safer.

Technology has definitely improved, but there is a physical limit to the amount of energy that you can pull out of a given mass of kerosene and liquid oxygen. Getting to space hasn't gotten any lighter, and fuel mass has always been the biggest hurdle. Again, play KSP. It will brand the tyranny of the rocket equation into your soul.

They also argue NASA could have just reused the same designs as the Apollo missions if they actually went to the moon.

They could, in the same way that we could start sending children underground to mine for coal again

To summarise,

a) Been there, done that. Anything new will involve sending more mass than the Apollo missions had to deal with. Tyranny of the rocket equation: more mass means more fuel means more thrusters means more mass means more fuel...

b) I could do some research and come back, but there is no answer to this that will satisfy a moon landing denier, because any explanation would require a baseline understanding of chemistry and also trust in the institutions that examine these moon rocks.

c) The answer to a also applies here

[–] ageedizzle@piefed.ca 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think the most convincing evidence that we did go to the moon has to do with the dynamics of the moon dust in the original Apollo footage. If you look at the footage you’ll see the dust gets kicked up pretty high, higher than what you’d expect given Earth’s gravity, and it falls at a slower rate too.

So the question is: if they faked this footage then how did they get the dust to behave like this?

One possible explanation is that the footage was filmed underwater. The issue with this, though, is this is not at all how you’d expect dust to behave underwater. (you can go to the beach, kick up a bunch of sand underneath the water and see for yourself).

Another possibility is suspension cables. I guess you could explain the astronauts perceived lower gravity with suspension cables, but for pieces of dust? You can’t have suspension cables for individual pieces of dust.

So the simplest explanation is that this footage really was actually taken on a lower gravity environment, such as the moon.

[–] yizus@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If someone is denying the moon landing, I doubt pointing out the mechanics of dust particles in low-g environments will do the trick.

The strongest evidence is the fact that modern equipment can see the actual tracks the A11 astronauts left while hiking and driving on the moon.

If that’s not enough, it’s probably best to drop the matter. You can’t use evidence to convince someone who does not want to be convinced.

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[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

a) Explain why the US hasn't gone back in so long, and why with modern technology it seems so difficult?

Going to the moon is expensive and has essentially no direct revenue. There are no resources to be had on the moon that provide worthwhile efficiency over what we already have on earth, and most of the basic science was done by the Apollo missions.

How do you verify moon rocks without having actually been on the moon? How did scientists figure out what a moon rock looks like?

Getting moon rocks, which have a unique microscopic texture due to no water erosion, was one of those "basic science" bits I mentioned before. They don't really prove the moon landing except that "they're from the moon" is the simplest answer for why these rocks have that unique texture.

Why aren't the old Apollo designs being reused for a moon landing? (by either the Americans or the Chinese)

Because thre 1960s were fifty years ago.

The industrial base to build an Apollo rocket isn't there anymore than the industrial base to build a 1965 Buick skylark or an Atati 2600. You could throw money and rebuild all those factories, but it'd dramatically balloon the cost even before you start to recon with correcting the inevitable mismatch between the original spec and what your rebuilt factory can make.

(And even if we did just rebuild Apollo, we'd wind up with a rocket that didn't have the advantage of 50 years of advancement.)

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[–] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 9 points 1 week ago

Arguing with a fool is like wrestling a pig - all that happens is you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

2 Things:

  1. They left a mirror at at least some of the landing sites, and we can bounce a laser off that mirror back to Earth. Proof that we were there.

  2. They have sent probes up to circle the moon, and those probes photographed the sites. You can see lunar landers, abandoned gear, footprints, and the tracks from lunar rovers.

[–] ExtremeUnicorn@feddit.org 1 points 5 days ago
  • You probably need special equpment to conduct the laser test. Noone cares to get access to that or trusts the institutions that do. Anyway, the laser is fake, it gets redirected somewhere else.
  • All phographs are faked anyway.

Their logic.

[–] YetAnotherNerd@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] False@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Literally not worth arguing with a person that believes this. These kinds of beliefs aren't rooted in logic or reality so you're not going to change their mind.

[–] exaybachae@startrek.website 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My grand pappy worked on parts used for those moon buggies. He was pretty knowledgeable about them and proud of his work.

Would be pretty shitty for him to have learned it was all staged.

He was a hard ass too, ex British Navy.

I don't think it wise to hire people like him to work on projects you intend to use to lie to and betray the public.

Pretty sure it'd be more cost effective and safer to just hire joe schmoe to work up some gadget in his garage, or to handle it in house. Why hire outside professionals and actually do the real work to just lie about the outcome.

[–] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why do you give a shit about an idiots beliefs?

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[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You don't, the same as "flat earthers" they're too far down the rabbit hole

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The Apollo missions were staged, that's 100% a fact.

Jokes aside, yeah Soviets are the answer. If there was the slightest inkling that we faked it, they wouldn't have come out to congratulate us.

[–] strocker89@feddit.online 6 points 1 week ago (5 children)

You cannot prove a negative. For example, if I say "prove that you are not a murderer" there is nothing you could possibly do to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have never murdered anyone. This is why you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on someone who claims it was a fraud, not the other way around.

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[–] Dearth@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

I always felt that the most compelling argument that we did it was that faking it was too risky. If America faked it and the USSR went up and found no evidence that America got up there then that would have been impossible for America's position on the global stage. Remember the Apollo missions happened during the Cold War. Irrefutable proof that America pretended to go to the moon would have been deeply damaging to idea that the might of capitalism was greater than the communists.

America left lots of stuff up on the moon with the idea that someday someone would go back up and see it.

It's also not really a big deal if your friend doesn't believe we went to the moon. What is their ignorance harming, really? They're another cog in the great machine of capital and neither their intelligence nor wisdom is required to keep it spinning

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