this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2026
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Proud moment for me:

I made it through the second of 8 absolutely delightful, engaging, and extremely PLEASURABLE novels in a series about a topic I love.

But the first book ended POORLY... because they knew that fans like me would be the second. It’s like it LITERALLY had zero ending. Meaning there was this absurd violation of novelistic structure.

And the second cemented my creeping suspicion that this all... all all all... was trifling crap. It’s like porn for people who like fast talking smart alecks, snide, sarcastic, and battle after battle after battle.

One amazingly engaging battle after another. So enjoyable. Exactly what I love.

Except that there's zero heart, soul, message... oh... it takes a head nod in the direction of what is noble and how should people behave...

But at the end of the day...

Lovely useless battles of stupid.

So... I did not buy the third.

I'm done.

Victory.

I’m not going to mention the name of the series because I don’t want to get into it with fans who are fine reading the same book 8 times: Hero and partner in exotic setting fight stuff until they live or die.

That’s the book.

Sirens of Titan made me weep for three hours. This is what I expect a novel to do. Moby Dick changed the way I examine culture and society. Emma taught me to be expect the unexpected. Valuable books do valuable work. Entertaining books entertain. I get it. I consider the elevation of my human experience more valuable than being entertained for five hours. Thoughts?

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[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I don't know, it sounds like your biggest issue is that the books are written to be a series and not self contained. To me, that's a narrative choice and isn't always bad. I hate it when the author doesn't finish and leaves he hanging forever, but I can appreciate a long story that takes multiple books to tell.

I'm currently rereading the Amber Chronicles, by Roger Zelazny, and it's like that. Arguably, it's two stories of five books each, although there's a thread from the first five that continues in the second. It's a wonderful series, especially the first five.

On the other hand, sometimes it feels like the author of a long series doesn't know where he's going, but is just trying to milk the franchise, and that's more problematic.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes! This is franchise milking. I find it tasteless.

[–] starlinguk@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But Dungeon Crawler Carl is a dungeon crawler. You go from level to level. It makes sense.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Even East of Eden and Moby Dick know how to be a novel despite their fantastic scope.

This is milking an audience and not delivering meaning — just more… whatever…

[–] tal@lemmy.today 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I’m currently rereading the Amber Chronicles, by Roger Zelazny, and it’s like that. Arguably, it’s two stories of five books each, although there’s a thread from the first five that continues in the second. It’s a wonderful series, especially the first five.

I'd love to have a new Amber Chronicles.

I liked the earlier books the most, the ones that focused on Corwin, where the scale tended to be kept smaller, not universe-shattering stuff, but felt that the whole thing was a fun read.

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I liked the earlier books the most, the ones that focused on Corwin

That's the first five books, the ones I said I liked better, too. For me, one of the reasons is that magic is mostly constrained to walking through shadows and using trumps. Corwyn mostly deals with his problems by training through solutions and deleting with people. In the second series, there's a broader type of magic, and Merlin uses it to deal with his problems.

Also, at least for the first half of the second series, Merlin is naive and easily manipulated, which I realize is intentional, but it's frustrating.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

In the second series, there’s a broader type of magic, and Merlin uses it to deal with his problems.

Yeah, that's also a good point. What bugged me was in part was something common to fiction, where each story tends to get "bigger" and higher stakes, and at the end of the series plot, the universe winds up at stake. But...there's another issue in that Merlin's magic is far more versatile. It makes for something of a deus ex machina, where the author can pull some new magic mechanism out of a hat to resolve issues or advance the plot, and I didn't like that as much as the much-more-limited toolbox that Corwin had.

Like, to have a good story, one has to have conflict to resolve. If you're Superman, that conflict pretty much has to resolve around Kryptonite or something like that. It limits the kinds of conflicts that the story can do. If you can only shadow-walk, as with Corwin


certainly a potent ability


but can only do so with physical movement and a set of landmarks that you can see and so forth, there are ways in which it can be restricted. But if you can, say, call up an intelligent portal virtually anywhere that's near-omniscient and can transport things anywhere, well, that alone kind of limits the sort of things that you can run into that are real challenges to overcome. And that's just one of the tools in Merlin's toolbox.

Also, at least for the first half of the second series, Merlin is naive and easily manipulated

Yeah...though to be fair, if the comparison is Corwin...a lot of the first book is just talking about how able he is to deal with situations and be cunning and see through intrigue even under extreme handicaps, like his damaged memory and with almost no information about what's going on. That's a high bar to follow.

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

But if you can, say, call up an intelligent portal virtually anywhere that’s near-omniscient and can transport things anywhere, well, that alone kind of limits the sort of things that you can run into that are real challenges to overcome. And that’s just one of the tools in Merlin’s toolbox.

Yeah, exactly - makes things a bit too easy.

Yeah…though to be fair, if the comparison is Corwin…a lot of the first book is just talking about how able he is to deal with situations and be cunning and see through intrigue even under extreme handicaps, like his damaged memory and with almost no information about what’s going on. That’s a high bar to follow.

Oh, I get it - like I said, I know it was an intentional choice by Zelazny. Merlin is young, where Corwin was hundreds of years old. He's a different char, and there's goodness in that. But I also found it annoying in a main character.

[–] dnick@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Deathstalker. OMG. This can't be the series you're talking about, but my god were those books a series of neverending escalations with the exact same resolution every single time. If you want to know how many times a hero can get into an impossible situation and get out of it by simply overcoming the impossible situation be becoming impossibly stronger, which is something apparently any other character is also potentially capable of if they are given the right drugs, that is the series for you.

Unfortunately, unlike you, i was determined to ride it out through spite instead of self respect.

[–] NannerBanner@literature.cafe 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

a series of neverending escalations with the exact same resolution every single time. If you want to know how many times a hero can get into an impossible situation and get out of it by simply overcoming the impossible situation be becoming impossibly stronger

Lol, this is just about every teenager fiction ever. I used to laugh when my family watched dragonball z, because it just seemed like the way two kids 'play/fight' when they're in kindergarten: "I win because I'm super saiyan!" "No, I win because I'm super sayain x2!!!!!" Just try harder (scream louder) and you win.

I had this exact realization as a teenager while undescribably stoned and haven't been able to watch shows like this since.

[–] AnchoriteMagus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Capt. Silence and Investigator Frost kept me going in that series far longer than common sense dictates.

I'd still love to see a B movie adaptation of a couple of the plot lines. Gimme an ironclad Sigourney Weaver positively eating the scenery as Empress Lionstone XIV.

[–] starlinguk@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Like the Wolf Brother books by Michelle Paver. Boy gets into trouble. Weird gruesome magic happens. Boy is saved by someone else because he'll never learn to save himself.

I love all Paver's books apart from these.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh… if I’m being honest… I’m probably just postponing the inevitable with the series that made me gobble two like candy. But… if I abstain for 6 months and I forget about it, I have saved over two hundred dollars… unless someone has links to the audio version…

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

I read a giant number of books, and I'm not rich. I use the Libby app with my library card. I usually get the Kindle versions, but they have audiobooks, too. All free.

[–] clockwork_octopus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Good for you! Life is too short to read disappointing stories, there are way too many other good ones out there waiting for you.

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Except it doesn't sound like he was disappointed by anything other than that the books are one long story, not self contained.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It’s that each is representing itself as a novel. They are not. They are episodes. And they should call themselves what they are: a serialization of a 5 or ten thousand page single book.

I know this perspective might be rare… and I aplaud the folks who are going to hang in there, but as good as the story is, it’s not worth seven thousand pages.

[–] starlinguk@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But they're not presenting themselves as single novels...

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Sure they are.

[–] SupremusRealitas@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

My suspicion is you are talking about Dungeon Crawler Carl?

Life is definitely too short to read books that don’t give you pleasure!

[–] eodur@piefed.social 5 points 1 week ago

This was my suspicion as well. However I'm enjoying the hell out if them.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Well… it’s tough: it does give me pleasure in the moment… but I fear after eight… I may have regret.

[–] JaymesRS@piefed.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

First, I fully support the, “not all books are for all people and spend what little time we all have focusing on that which brings you joy in a rewarding sense.

That said, if it is DCC, you’re not seeing the heart or soul in the first couple except in brief instances I think on purpose. You really start getting it in 3 on, because the first 2 are purely survival mode for Carl and Donut. Once you progress deeper in the dungeon, the machinations of the outside universe seeps in a bit more and provides a foil for Carl, et al. to react to and in cases interact with beyond just the next dungeon battle. (Also MD has said it will be 10 books total (9 stories with the last one split in 2 volumes)).

The floors do also seem to be inspired by different types of games.

Floor 1–2: Basic Old School Dungeon Crawl Floor 3: Dungeons and Dragons/RPG Floor 4: Rogue-like Games Floor 5: MMO Game Floor 6: Battle Royal (maybe?) Floor 7: Maze/Puzzle Floor 8: Pokémon/Collectible Card Game Floor 9: Real Time Strategy/Management SIM

[–] SupremusRealitas@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 week ago

I’ve only read the first book - I am interested in the larger universe - but they’ll obviously have to get out of the dungeon first. We’ll see!

I’m reading Dune Messiah right now — gotta get ready for the movie in December.

[–] SupremusRealitas@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Where do you think your regret would come from?

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Realizing that the series offers no soul nourishing sustenance.

[–] SupremusRealitas@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

What sustenance nourishes the soul? All learnings? Would you not say pleasure/joy nourishes the soul as well even if nothing new is learned?

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's the difference between eating sugar and eating fruit.

[–] SupremusRealitas@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 1 points 1 week ago

Yes. What has no place is snobbery over what form of entertainment people take on. There is, short of causing harm, no such thing as BadWrongFun™.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I think the book series I am abandoning gives pleasure but no joy.

I will share with you that Anna Kerinina has these scenes with these Bohemians… and those scenes gave me joy — because they we both pleasurable and nourishing… I had no idea what a Bohemian meal might have looked like before a read it. Anyway… ultimately to each his own… but I really do hope I can resist the rest of this series.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

But the first book ended POORLY

I can think of a few series that had books where I really enjoyed the first books, but felt that the series went downhill over time. The Dune Chronicles


I really liked the first book, but the later books just got progressively worse, in my opinion. Or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

But I can't think of any series where I had a bad first book and then the thing progressively got better.

Granted, that may be selection bias


maybe I just never complete a series if the first book is bad.

[–] JaymesRS@piefed.world 3 points 1 week ago

It’s widely regarded that the first 2.5-3 books in The Dresden Files are the weakest writing. Not bad, but immature writing skill.

The series gets very good and deeply engaging after that, but that’s a close comparison to what you mentioned.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

I’m trying to be considerate in not naming the series and thus insulting the fandom, but I said the first book ended poorly… I didn’t say it was bad. For what it was… it was exciting in places and enjoyable, but by the measure of novel structure: F grade

[–] MoltenFoundry@fedinsfw.app 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think this makes sense. If the first book didn't actually have an ending and the second book left you feeling like it's just a series of battles and banter, good job recognizing that that's not what you want.

This has all the ingredients you enjoy but you don't like the way those pieces are assembled. Nod and move on.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I even skeedaddled after Star Wars VII. It just wasn’t happening.

[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Same! I even enjoyed it somewhat. But they did nothing to restore my lost faith after the prequels.

Should've just filmed the Thrawn trilogy. Nobody needed yet another Death Star rehash.

[–] orb360@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You not liking the series isn't an insult to the fandom. I don't think people who dislike and rant about pistachio ice cream to be insulting to me.

And if you want to go off about pistachio ice cream, go off! I'll be here eating it anyway.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Exactly.

It’s Rum Raisin I absolutely cannot stand.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So... I did not buy the third

Did you also give up on Lord of the Rings after book 2 didn't have an ending?

8 is ridiculous but many books follow the Lord of the Rings structure where books aren't self contained novels.

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 1 points 1 week ago

Lord of the Rings was not a trilogy. It was a single novel that was too large to publish as a single novel so the publisher found two dividing points and sold it as three books.

It wasn't a trilogy. It wasn't a series. It was a single story. (Which is why the version I have is in a single book now.)

[–] edg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This is me with the Stormlight Archive. I vociferously defended the first book, but after finishing the second one I couldn't face subjecting myself to a decade plus of thousands of pages of mediocre fantasy.

[–] NannerBanner@literature.cafe 3 points 1 week ago

I think if I could just read the little 'asides' about the world, I'd be happy. He built an incredible setting, but after the fourth book I was just sort of grumpy. The majority of the characters just completely stopped being interesting. Give me that one guy making measurements of the fire sprites, or the colossal shrimp that one city uses for its executions.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Exactly! Thank you!

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Without the name of the series, I can only provide some very basic thoughts.

The first of these will likely upset you, however. There is, barring actively harming someone, no such thing as BadWrongFun™. Saying that you didn't like it because you expect more depth is fine. (I'd even agree.) But there was a very strong streak of disdain for those who do not share your tastes in your post. This, IMO, is not fine.

The second of these is that I actually thank authors who make huge series. It tells me that they aren't serious people and that I won't enjoy their works. A novel is a very long format for writing. If you can't get a good, complete, story that actually ends in a single novel, you're probably not an author I want to read anyway, so thanks for the warning.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I think our attitudes here overlap more than they diverge.

[–] Vupware@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I will always proselytize with the goal of getting people to read those substantive books. You can read for fun, but you’re missing out on a lot of reading’s value if you just read the same thing over and over again and never challenge yourself.

Me personally, once I get that commercial taste in my mouth while I’m reading a book, it’s very hard for me to think about it objectively. I become consumed with resentment, irrationally.

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I came late to the party of Anna Kerinina but I am so glad I finally applied myself and got to witness an actual masterpiece.