this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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Apple hopes to convince people to buy its $3,500 Vision Pro headset using free 25-minute in-store demos::undefined

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[–] Devdogg@lemmy.ml 38 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (21 children)

Oh. My. Goodness.

$3,500?!? HAHAHAHAHAHA

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 32 points 9 months ago (12 children)

It is not meant for the end consumer at this stage, it is a tech demo and development kit.

The real consumer variant will probably be released in a year or two.

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[–] BrownianMotion@lemmy.world 33 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Is 25 minutes a long enough in-store demo test time to have a $3500 wank?

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Well it's indicative about the amount of content you'll have for it when you buy it.

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago

The bigger question is what will you do with the other 24 minutes?

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[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 28 points 9 months ago (5 children)

take a deep breath and realize; if you cannot afford this, you are not rich enough to be part of apples target audience.

no matter how much you want to tell yourself that you are.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 24 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t know apple target audiance was a total of 400.000 people which is the total amount the’ll make of these.

Seriously this is a proof of concept for rich kids children to be test users. I doubt it will visible move the needle on their profits.

You have some strange ideas, do android users enjoy being the “target audience” of google?

I am loyal to no brand, own a mix of devices and boycot some. Love tech, fuck capitalism.

[–] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

It certainly is a big beta test product. I see it like the Tesla Roadster.

[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 9 points 9 months ago

Isn't that kind of like saying that if you can't afford 2024 MB S63 AMG then you're not in Mercedes Benzs' target audience? I bet the profit Apple makes from selling iPhones dwarfs the earnings from selling these goggles even if they're successful.

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 22 points 9 months ago

Half of the US can't afford a $1000 emergency. $3500 for a toy seems steep in that context.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

Oh yeah like I wanna get head lice from the snot-nosed kid some mom dumped there so she could go get some Starbucks in peace.

[–] thorbot@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Honestly, I just want to experience it for 25 minutes and then I think I would be good. My Valve Index does enough for me for gaming, and I am not wearing a headset all day to work.

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[–] crystalmerchant@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The price is always the joke, but this is aimed at commercial buyers right? Not consumers

[–] soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz 37 points 9 months ago

Oh boy, you've got a lot to learn about apple consumers

[–] erranto@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

I don't believe Apple made this product to sell. it might be just marketing ploy to keep people talking about Apple and how they are always ahead of the curve. they have a brand reputation to maintain.

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[–] Yewb@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If its amazing like revolutionary amazing it would change my mind, if it's just a vr headset nope.

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[–] ordellrb@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)
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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Is this VR or AR or both? And how robust is the actual software support?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

It's whatever you need it to be, baby. Just hand over the cash and Apple will make your dreams come true.

[–] DrinkMonkey@lemmy.ca 8 points 9 months ago

To give a non-snarky answer, it does AR with external cameras and an incredibly low lag such that those who have tried it have said makes it almost natural (the resolution apparently isn’t perfect, but there is no discernible input lag when looking around which happens on other similar devices). But you can dial up the opacity to wind up in a fully VR environment. So, it is in fact, both.

Your question about software is a big one. Apple is advertising 1M apps available at launch (good) but these are iPad apps, which can run on Vision OS without any modifications by the developers (not so good). That does not mean it will be a good experience. I was listening to a podcast today where a developer clearly stated that after getting a chance to try their app on device at a lab, they totally stopped development because they missed the mark completely with their imagination and the simulator on how it should work. You’ll still be able to run their iPad app, but until they get their hands on their own hardware to iterate more rapidly, they’re giving up.

All that to say it’s unclear how many apps will be natively designed to work with it on launch, and if these will be any good.

Thankfully I don’t live in the US so I am immune to this particular reality distortion field. For now…

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Careful there, that's about the amount of time it takes to realize that it's just a gimmick that has no use in your personal life, and very narrow industrial application. They might actually lose potential buyers rather than gain some.

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

As someone who wears a VR headset for about 8 hours a day on average and has for nearly ten years now, I can say our definition of gimmick varies somewhat.

Apples headset of course won't do well, but it sounds like it will raise awareness that it isn't a gimmick or a fad. And people that try it, will buy a practical modern headset instead.

The newest generation of headsets are as clear as a 4k monitor, despite not having enough actual pixels to literally display a 4k monitor at a comfortable viewing distance. There is a sort of free temporal anti-aliasing gained by the fact that your head will never be in the same exact place frame to frame, which effectively works out to percievably double the resolution clarity. A modern headset does have enough pixels to display more than raw 1080p at a comfortable viewing distance.

So even if you are not using them for actual VR, at the very worst, they replace a 4k screen at whatever size and distance you choose to have it at. I recommend about 20 feet away and scaled up to about 60 degrees accross your field of view. Unlike a monitor placed 3-4 feet from your face, or a TV 8-10 feet away(or a phone screen less than a foot away), 20 feet is very comfortable for your eyes. So you won't get eye strain anymore.

And as for what environment that screen is in? Anywhere... including your real reality. The current generation of VR headsets has near-perfect clarity of a well-lit room that seamlessly blends with whatever virtual content you want to superimpose on it. The clarity goes down with worse lighting conditions, either with too much range of brightness, or not enough light in total.

Usually I will put my virtual screen beside or below the TV that the rest of my family is watching. Until it gets too dark out that the comparatively bright TV screen just gets washed out by camera optics(hopefully we get settings for this in the future, it could very much be fixed in software), then I move my screen to cover the TV, which is of course placed in the most comfortable viewing position from our recliners. I choose whether I want to hear audio from and see outside of the headset, or whether I want to ignore the outside world and focus entirely on my virtual screen.

And that is just the least interesting thing you can do with a VR headset, and enough to already justify the 500 dollar price tag of a practical VR headset. As an incredibly low latency remote 4k monitor you can place wherever you want, at whatever size and distance you want. Even if it would be through a wall. Still incredibly comfortable to view for way too many hours in a row.

You could also use a VR headset to do VR stuff. I occasionally do that too. It's also good and more than worth the purchase price, as there is nothing else like it and no other way to experience that.

And then of course there is the porn. Even completely ignoring that exists, VR would already be awesome and very worth the price. But most people with VR headsets don't ignore that it exists, even if they pretend they do. And let me tell you, there is also nothing else like that. But, you have to be careful/selective, as with all porn, most of it is terrible. You can find some good stuff for free, but as always the best stuff is not free.

Suffice it to say, the future really is VR, just like it really was computers, cell phones then smartphones, even if the first computers, cellphones and smartphones didn't feel at the time like they were gonna catch on. Try telling someone when the first iPhone came out that people were going to spend hours playing games on their phones, and that phone gaming was going to be literally 3x the size of the next biggest gaming market. The next biggest being computer games. Then consoles.

https://images.app.goo.gl/W2YBPTryTf675ZGD7

There isn't a more up to date version of this info graphic, 4 years ago mobile was only double computer. And VR has significantly increased since then, the Quest 2 wasn't even released yet for this infographic. Quest 2 sold 20 million units, that's just one headset, the highest selling one, but there are other reasonably popular ones too since then. And Quest 3 has been out for a while now. And again, just one of the popular options.

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Can you expand on your use case and setup? I have an OG vive and really enjoyed it while I had space for it but haven't kept up with the meta after moving to a smaller place. I'm very curious what headset you are using for this long and what you are doing with it and why you decided on this workflow.

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

It has been various headsets, most often Quest headsets for me personally. Currently a Quest 3. For most of them a halo style strap with battery on back was most comfortable for me. But everyone is different. Custom face pads don't matter for me once I have a halo style headstrap, but for other headstrap styles the facepads would be very important for 8+ hour comfort.

Silicone facepads are good for short term exercise sessions as they clean quickly and easily, plu leather is a good choice for longer sessions with less profuse sweating. And cloth is good for very long sessions with no or mild sweating.

But yeah, in terms of what I actually do with it in this example, it's very similar to a steamdeck, I just play my computer games on it, but while sitting on a nice comfy recliner.

I do also play VR games, mostly adventure RPGs. I have played the MMOs, specifically Orbus and Zenith. They are both pretty good. Lately I have been playing Dungeons of Eternity, Into the Radius, Ancient Dungeon, and the beta for Legendary Tales.

Previously I have played over 100 different games over the past 9 years in VR. All the "I expect you to die" games are great, everything from Owlchemy labs is awesome, while also being entirely kid friendly too. The official Iron Man VR game, surprisingly good. The moss games are good. Both "little cities" and "Cities VR" are great in completely different ways if you like city builders.

Walking dead:saints and sinners was good, once you get past some of the frankly too scary parts at the start of the game and to the part where it's an action game instead of sneaking around in the dark being surprised by unsuspected zombies. Also never stay out past the bells. I'm glad I played the Quest version first before playing the PCVR version. Not sure I would have gotten past the start if the zombies were scary looking instead of cartoony, hehe. The Quest 3 graphics upgrade is also kinda getting there, lol.

The Red Matter games are an interesting experience, but I mostly played them to see the kickass graphics running on mobile hardware. The people that made those games have alot of talent for getting good looking graphics efficiently.

Speaking of graphics, for a Quest 3, I highly recommend the purchase of "Quest Games Optimizer". It's a program with the ability to override alot of the hardware settings on the headset with ADB commands. And a database of presets for each game. You'll be able to pick between a few for most games, depending on if you prefer higher framerate or higher resolution, or if you want to not run the headset at max but still have better graphics than a game originally made for Quest 1 or 2 would otherwise have. Otherwise some older games can look unnecessarily not great on a Quest 3. When they are fully capable of looking great.

"The Under Presents:" was a truly unique concept. They hired actors to perform as all the NPCs in the game, between live showings of the plays they put on. The plays were classic plays enhanced by effects that could only be done live in a VR environment. And they also tended to have some audience participation. Unfortunately the live aspects of the game don't exist anymore. They brought them back every now and then for a month or so, but it has been a while since the last time, so it likely won't happen any more. Hopefully more stuff like that exists in the future.

For PCVR stuff, I played alot of Elite:Dangerous, I still play some American truck sim. And various racing and rally games. I also play alot of the same types of games as what I play on stand alone. I play wirelessly either through Virtual Desktop, Steam VR Link, or Oculus air link. Whatever the game I intend to play works best on.

I also do indeed watch 3D movies on it, this is the first reasonable household medium in human history with perfect 3D. Definitely gonna take advantage of that. And speaking of 3D, most computer games with a modern engine can be played in 3D. Like either making a virtual 3D monitor, or by actually putting your head inside the game world. Also most gamecube and wii games too. But yeah, just recently the entire Unreal engine got a VR mod, so any game made on unreal engine all of a sudden is capable of being a VR game out of the box. Most will still need some minor bespoke mods to clean things up here and there, or if they want to do motion controls, but the hardest part is done as a baseline now.

There is also the old program "VorpX" which is a dll injection based universal VR mod database. It doesn't work with every game, but the list is pretty long. One caveat, playing a computer game in VR is harder to run than 4k 60fps. So depending on what game you want to play, like say Cyberpunk 2077 or something, you might need what is currently pretty expensive hardware to have a good time. But if you want to run something from 5-10 years ago, you'll have no problem with a computer that wouldn't be able to run modern games at 4k 60fps, as long as it can run those old games at that. Playing games on a perfect 3D monitor alone is pretty awesome, but "stepping into" a gamecube game potentially from your childhood, is a whole other thing.

Also on that topic, Quest 3 just got a native 3DS emulator that runs most games at full framerate in 3D. Many well enough to increase the render resolution too. And this is the initial release, so it should only get better from here. I loved my "new" 3DS back in it's day, even though the resolution was so low, but I love it more now that I can fix that.

Also as a parting note, Skyrim VR, Fallout 4 VR, and VR chat are all individual games/apps that can easily support thousands of hours of use each. VRchat seems crazy and darn near repulsive until you manage to find "your" crowd. And skyrim and fallout 4 have an insane selection of mods. You can turn them into whatever you want, as long as your computer can run what you want.

I personally have a pretty wide variety of activities I do in/with my VR headset, but in terms of time clocked, using it as a virtual computer monitor with 2ms network latency and a 40 foot tall screen where I control every aspect of the monitors properties, shape, size, brightness, curvature, whether or not the light it casts interacts with the rest of the room, what even the "rest of the room" completely means... probably my most time spent, just ahead of time spent playing VR games.

It also can run any android app you sideload, but unfortunately it has no GPS. But there are some pretty useful android apps, notably any emulators made for Android. Those versions will just be run on a virtual flat-screen, it won't suddenly make android apps 3D. But it can still be nice to have a 6 foot wide phone game where you use laser pointers instead of fingers to tap the stuff. Save your finger joints, and your neck from looking down at your phone.

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[–] Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

Id buy it right now if it was maybe $500.

Spatial computing is the future.

I don't need 3 screens. I need a pair of spectacles.

Screens have always been the bottleneck. The phone tablet monitor tv.

Glasses can do entire field of vision.

[–] GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I’d buy one if it were useful enough.

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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Can't wait to see people wearing those around the office. Thinking about it. if you remove the desk, monitors, keyboard, mouse and just sit down bunch of programmers next to each other with those goggles it can actually be cheaper for the company to run an office even at 3.5k per headset.

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (12 children)

a monitor keyboard and mouse costs more than 3500?

what the fuck are you going to do at work without a keyboard and mouse?

what

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[–] fhek@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 9 months ago

That’s a no from me dawg

[–] smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 9 months ago (5 children)

And I thought buying an iPhone was crazy...

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[–] Ringmasterincestuous@aussie.zone 5 points 9 months ago

If it’s anything like my other VR headsets the novelty wears off in 10.. this runs dangerously close to not getting to the bottom of my cupboard with all the other shithouse headsets

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