cross-posted from: https://piefed.social/c/noncredibledefense/p/1490862/the-correct-response
this happened once in syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2026
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Crazy! I didn't hear about that when it happened.
"Hey we're being attacked, this you?"
"Nope, not us."
"Cool, cause we're about to fuck shit up."
"Wait... no! Not like that!”
I remember hearing about it when it happened and found it hilarious. Wagner mercs realizing that papa Putin doesn't care if they die (there was some audio clip circulating). Wagner mercenaries have been known to be pretty nasty (not unique to them of course, Americans have Blackwater and its successors).
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Interestingly no country gave this correct responde. Or even took a passing interest.
I'm pretty sure my country's then-leader was very interested but was fobbed off with a deal for cheap Russian gas, subsequently growing our industry almost fully dependent on that discounted energy. Great deal, Angela. Well done.
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So....
Is the US supposed to be the world police or not?
Budapest memorandum entitles Ukraine to assistance in this case.
Considering that Russia attacked them, I think any entitlements in the memorandum are null in their eyes. The agreement is effectively nullified. From what I've briefly read, the document is not forcing any party to assist Ukraine, beyond advocating for them at the UN security council.
I'd say the main difference here is that Ukraine probably wanted the "support" of the US. I think we did alright giving them access to money, weapons and training to defend themselves early on, and the major shortcoming was limiting the targets that they could strike with the weapons we sold. Turnabout is fair play, if Vlad wants to start throwing hands, he has to accept that he may get punched in the face.
No it does not. Not even a little bit.
The Budapest memorandum A) isn’t even a binding treaty. And B) only guarantees assurances from the US, UK, and Russia that they won’t invade Ukraine.
There are absolutely ZERO provisions for the US giving military defense to Ukraine in the event they are invaded.
The US and UK have upheld that. Neither have ever invaded Ukraine.
Depends on the day and personal beliefs of the person advocating for it. So, Schroedinger’s World Police. As a USian, I would prefer the EU took over the world police job. It's not worth the effort.
That is a very short-sighted view. The US' role as world police allowed it to station troops all over the world, projecting power and influence in every corner of the world. Every deal any country in the world made, always at least considered a US deal. The US was able to influence politics without actually having to flex the military muscle. They could always still do that if diplomacy didn't work. The projection of scientific and cultural power was also part of that influence.
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I mean you could replace the Stars and Stripes here with French Tricolour or Union Jack and I still think it works. The point is more that the lukewarm response to the Crimean invasion emboldened Russia into attacking mainland Ukraine.
Maybe it's a filter of my English-speaking internet circles, but I've never seen memes like this about France or the UK. So you could replace the flags... The point is that it doesn't seem to happen.
Did Ukraine ask for help?
yes
Then it's simple. The US should help Ukraine. They're being invaded and are asking for help. For the "pragmatists", any nation what helps Ukraine with have an easier time doing business with them afterwards.
The US has.
Ukraine has explicitly NOT asked for direct military assistance. They have not asked for troops or US airstrikes.
They have asked for weapons, logistics, intelligence, and ammunition. All of which have been provided by the US and European NATO nations.
Ukrainians repeatedly asked to close the sky, which is de-facto a sort of direct help. Also talks about NATO troops being stationed on the West part. Still no balls.
Second paragraph - only after 2022. Ukraine was denied even buying Western equipment in 2014. Obama is an asshole.
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The trick is to have a US-controlled strategic interest there. See Syria, Russians attack a US-defended oilfield, Russia denies they are Russian regulars, US turn 200 of them into moist ash with artillery and JDAMs
We're not supposed to. But in the instance of Ukraine, we signed a treaty with Ukraine, Russia and ourselves that if Ukraine dismantled their nuclear weapons that the US would defend Ukraine if Russia invaded. And Russia would defend Ukraine if US invaded.
but i guess international law is nonexistant and nobody gives a damn if a country makes a promise
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I'd say go for it, even with Putin's threat of nukes.
With how much Russia's oligarchy plundered their own war-chest over the years, to the point where they had to rely on Iran for weapons, I actually question if any of Russia's nukes actually work.
Uh, maybe I'm unfamiliar with the engineering behind nukes. Do they expire? Or are you joking that they've just stripped the parts?
They do expire. Problem is that there's a lot of them. Fire 100 nukes, and even if 99% fail, that's at least one mushroom cloud in the most fertile land on earth. And the ones that did expire become essentially dirty bombs.
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Honestly mostly just the latter. Was joking that they would've maintained them so badly that none of the nukes would make it out of their silos, even if they were still capable of detonation.
While I was aware the warheads require maintainance, @impairedimperator@lemmy.zip definitely said it better than I could.
I remember that time. Putin said that the Russian Army had not invaded Ukraine, not that there weren't Russian troops there. There were plenty of Russian military members who took a leave of absence to help restore democracy in Ukraine after the Euromaidan riots threatened the elected government into resigning. That was the official Russian position.
Maybe the correct respond is something like the missile need to take their annual paid leave and eastern ukraine sounds like a good place to be.
They do have mineral reserves and if the US threw their weight into supporting Ukraine, their businesses would be very willing to work with the US. Even from a self benefiting, pragmatic perspective, the US should be supporting them.
That's why I'm so confused about the lukewarm support. From a purely capitalist lens, Ukraine could have been exploited to hell and back once Russia was BTFOd. But now they're looking at a decades long demining operation which is gonna hurt the ~~exploitation effort~~ ~~bottom line~~ ~~billionaires pockets~~ uhhhhh something.
Well our capitalists are really really bad at capitalism, and are much more proficient at cronieism.....cronism?........cronyism? Oh ok it's the last one
We were pretty much onboard with helping Ukraine, and were providing intelligence and selling them arms.
But Trump is totally a Russian asset, or was at the time. (Russia spent a lot of resources and manpower on Trump's 2016 campaign.) Nowadays, Trump might be catching on that Putin has absolutely no respect for him.
And deny a symmetrical warfare environment to develop the next generation of drones? Never!
Raytheon's index price wasn't even $70 in 2014!
Like the US will go to war with Russia, it's become a vassel state as of late.
Well not for Ukraine that's for fucking sure.
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