I don't know if that's a tesla thing, or just cars in general these days (as I have an old vehicle and don't ride in many others), but not having a fucking manual door opener seems really, really dumb.
this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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it's over engineering at it's finest. Also included is the motorized pop-out door handles.
So the pop out handles on evs make a little sense. The goal is to reduce wind drag as much as possible. At least on mine (not a Tesla) you can still interact with the handle without the car exposing it.
Not having a manual way to open from the inside? No way in hell is that ok.
The wind drag on the handles is so negligible youd see a larger performance boost simply washing the bugs off the surface.
Cars aren’t moving fast enough that such short protrusions really matter.
It isn’t until cars start getting to race speeds that aerodynamic forces become … important.
Does it reduce drag? Yes. Is it smart to do so? Not so much. This is like all the cars that pulled out spares to get under the Obama era mpg requirements. Does it increase mileage? Sure. Is it smart to do so?
No. Wind drag on handles is most certainly not negligible. Even small protrusions on an otherwise smooth surface can have a significant effect. That effect is hard to model - you can't just eyeball it.
Drag is proportional to windspeed squared.
Aero matters to fucking cyclists. It absolutely 100% matters to motor vehicles, especially in the context of EV range anxiety.
Just don't fucking dunning-kruger, FFS. Surely you realise that automotive engineers have specific education that you don't have. I don't mind you being wrong, it's the arrogance that pisses me off.
Aerodynamics are a primary driver of range, which is a major ev selling point. A 12% drag decrease is huge, because you can carry less battery which means you can have a smaller motor, lighter frame, leading to even more range.
The retractable door handle design allows radical aerodynamic designing for the side body panel. Retractable door handles are invisible handles that contribute by about 12% to reduce the drag coefficient of vehicles. Retractable door handles eliminate the issue of airflow bulge creation, air flow turbulence generation, and air flow pressure conservation. The decreased drag coefficient will also contribute to increasing the fuel efficiency of vehicles as there will be low drag generation resisting the movement of vehicles through the airflow. Amey Vikram, a lead analyst at Technavio for automotive components research
Unless they have a source for this i.e actual peer reviewed paper, this sounds like marketing.
I agree. It reads like ChatGTP or something.
Engineering stuff in production isn't peer reviewed the same way new research and discoveries are in academia. Companies usually produce estimates and sell them, and their reputation and trustworthynes is based on the quality of their predictions. I don't know how trustworthy this research group is in the industry, but it at least seems to be big.
Aerodynamics are a primary driver of range, which is a major ev selling point. A 12% drag decrease is huge, because you can carry less battery which means you can have a smaller motor, lighter frame, leading to even more range.
at the cost of.... safety (getting locked inside during a crash... first responders being locked out,), reliability (they break enough to justify a class action); and ease of use... the 12% drag reduction isn't actually that huge. Particularly when you translate that into range extension. 10% reduction leads to 5% range. in the case of a model s, that's about 15-20 miles per charge cycle.
And I doubt very much that 12% isn't inflated. The entire article you linked below is a marketing pitch for the people that make said handles.
If it really was that substantial, you'd have seen cars going to hidden/flush/shaved handles back in the Obama fuel efficiency standards era. You know. When they were removing spare tires to get a little extra MPG. (this is also why EV's aren't coming with spares. to squeak out a little bit more range. Compared to the door handles... a lot more range.)
Further, the handles don't have to be motorized. You can have mechanical latches on flush-mounted handles. The entire design started with aesthetics and "cool" factor. which is why people are getting trapped in them and you know, getting trapped and dying. yep. "12%"...but hey, you might die because of it.
oh, by the way, the cost replace on of those over-engineered handles? about a grand. I'd rather sacrifice the range, to have a car whose door actually works reliably. but idunno. maybe I'm just weird.
There's only a small handful of cars that have primarily electronic door handles. Teslas are the worst because opening the door without power is very different than opening it with power and sometimes breaks the window. I think it was Mercedes or someone who has a power lock but the manual release is part of the same lever, you just pull it out farther.
Also wasn't there a famous video of BMW showing how to mechanically perform every task on their all electric sports car? From car doors to hood releases to way more niche things 99.9999% of people will never use or even know exists?
It was the I8. The techs were talking about all the little things you can do to break stuff on the car because of how insanely designed it all was. The techs kept breaking the door releases, and you need to jam screwdrivers in the hinge for the hood which requires at least two people to open to avoid breaking or deforming it.
Teslas are just overrated they dont do anything better than other ev cars, they were just first to mass market, which is great but doesn't mean it's a good purchase today.
This is textbook bad engineering.
I don't normally use the word "literally", but... Teslas are literally death traps. Their door releases are all extremely hidden and impossible to locate if you haven't been trained to find them. It's like they are trying to kill people.
My Toyota has this thing called a door handle
Heh, peasants with their ancient car doors. It doesn't count as a car until you unlock it with your fingerprint and credit card information and bash your head four times on the roof while getting in.
The Model 3 owner's manual states that "only the front doors are equipped with a manual door release."
Well clearly anyone in the rear could just go out the front doors. And there's absolutely no conceivable way that would ever not be possible, right?
Huh, this must be new? My Model 3 and S both have rear hardware manual open methods.
The Model 3 one is so easy to access that most of my passengers used it instead of the button.
There's a little hole next to the electric door handle where you can poke a straightened paper clip... oh oops, that's the cd player, not the door.
The new Lexus RX has this door tech as well. I couldn’t open the door in the showroom.
Walked out of Lexus right away.
Reason #286 to never own a god damned stupid Tesla.
Cars are required to have manual releases by law; it's just shitty how Tesla appears to be skirting those rules by hiding these manual releases behind inconvenient placements and locations...which is going to get people killed someday when one of these damn things catch fire.
So I'll just throw out my personal anecdote, as a Model 3 owner. Every single person who's ever gotten into my car for the first time cannot find the electronic button that opens the door, to the point that I got little vinyl decals with a door open symbol on them to indicate that button opens the door. Usually what happens for first-time passengers is one of two things:
- Someone can't find the button to open the door and immediately grabs the mechanical manual release and opens the door just fine (as long as they're in the passenger seat, as the rear seats do not have one. I agree that is dumb.)
- Someone finds the button and presses it, then the window rolls down slightly (about half an inch) and the door unlatches and partially opens. The person then thinks they just rolled down the window and doesn't just push the now-opened door, so the latch re-engages after a moment. I then tell them "push the button and then open the door" and then it's fine.
I agree that the way to open the door, even from the outside, is not intuitive when compared to what most people are accustomed to. Any time someone gets in for the first time I have to explain "press the big part with your thumb and then grab the handle". But it takes no more than half a second to figure out if you're the least bit observant. Hell, when I first got the car I drove my friend around for a few weeks before realizing the beeping when the passenger's door opened was because he used the manual mechanical door release instead of the button every time. He literally found the manual release more easily than the intended button for opening the door, and just thought that was the right way to open it until I told him otherwise.
You need power to open the door? Every day I learn more and more how piss poor the design is for these cars.
No, there's a manual release. It's normally hidden but it's there in case of the battery dying.
I had a car in my 20s that trapped me inside, because the door handle broke and the window wouldn't roll down.
Apparently Tesla is making cars as crappy as my 1985 Monte Carlo I had when I was 21.
I'm a robotics and mechatronics engineer in the automotive manufacturing space.
A few things I will never bend on, no matter how good the tech gets: Mechanical braking system Mechanical link from steering wheel to tires Manual door locks and handles Mechanical trunk/fuel door releases
Things I prefer to be mechanical: Fuel pump Carburetor Timing
Personally I drive a 1970 c20. It has a carb with throttle body injection, and electric pump with mechanical back up. An HEI distributor with electronic advance that still works if the electronics fail. I love the convenience of tech but it needs a robust back up.
Why on god's green earth would any engineer prefer carburation to fuel injection?