this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2025
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According to the article the females don't fare any better either.
I didn't know this about octopi, what's the point, evolutionarily, to self destruct after reproducing?
Essentially their entire mating cycle is what causes this. They've got a gland behind the eye that puts them into mating mode and once it starts it never turns off until they overdose on sex hormone.
Most cephalopods are voracious hunters that eat and eat to grow big and then once mating mode switches on they just focus on mating, which results in a shit ton of babies. Every step of that cycle has an extremely high mortality rate resulting in strong selection pressures for the best of every phase. When they do something, they go big.
Holy shit what a way to go.
Get horny > have sex > orgasm > keep orgasming > die of too much orgasm
Living the dream.
I wonder what would happen if you removed the gland? How long could they live and how big could they get?
They've done that and they lived twice as long. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1977/12/01/octopus-surgery-has-a-surprising-end-longer-life/a8fabbce-0d76-400f-a9b4-e95b8b93094e/
Fascinating!
Not everything in evolution ends up having a point. So long as a problem does not impact the propagation of children it can end up moving forward to the next generation.
I would guess that if there is an Evolutionary reason, it's probably that octopi with this drive reproduced More than octopi that didn't.
They reproduce so much because they forget they had already done it and believe they need to do it or else
There is no point, evolution is about successful reproduction and everything else is just random chance.
If a evolutionary tweak happens that gives your off spring better chances, but your arms fall off after sex then it'll probably perpetuate.
Unless your species is a K Strategist where taking care of your offspring/group is essential.
But that's just moving the goalpost, so to speak. You've just built a different parenting framework that requires you to stick around. You're still hunting the same goal: self sufficient offspring
(Not negging you)
True, I'm just being pedantic and pointing out that "reproduce and that's it" isn't the case for some species.
Some species carry it on to "reproduce and ensure your offspring reproduces too."
Just goon forever
Gooners win again
Maybe them dying is the bonus, eliminating the old blood.
nope, then you'd see some of same species showing the behaviour, others not.
Wouldn't it make them easier to he hunted by prey or just die from not being careful
People with dementia can end up getting themselves fatally injured so I don't see an octopus can't
So I don't see how it's beneficial to help them survive
It's not but, the evolutionary goal is compete.
There's no way for the octopus to pick a mate with out the side effect, so the lack of post-nut clarity continues through the generations.
There's a specific life history strategy called semelparity, which is what you're describing (breeding once then dying). To my understanding, this is incentivized if the chances of getting a second attempt to breed are too low, and so it becomes more evolutionarily advantageous to simply go all out on the first attempt
Semelparity: “Fuck it, I’m gonna nut to death”
A bit similar process in sea-dwelling salmons: migrating from salt water into fresh water (quite a big metabolic challenge in itself), traveling up rapids to suitable spawning places (often a long and arduous journey)... after they've accomplished that, their chances of returning alive are quite low. So they mostly die. But their close relatives, river-dwelling trouts spawn many times in life, because their migration isn't as costly.
I would suspect that something in how octopuses reproduce has an element of "return being costly" - it could be a metabolic return to the feeding and growing state instead of a physical return.
Thanks, one solid answer! It could be that it used to be an advantage at some point and now it's just perpetuated
To be clear, it's still an advantage and for the ones that it isn't they don't die after mating. Most cephalopods are both predators and prey that life cycle results in a very high mortality rate. If you don't hunt enough, you fail and if you get eaten you fail. The deep cold water ones though, tend to have to live longer due to less prey and have fewer predators so they tend to not die after mating.
That makes sense, if there is an organism that is a very good predator, and the chances to breed a second time are too low, then if the organism doesn't die it will be consuming the resources of those who can breed. Natural selection must prioritize having descendents over long living, because not having descendents is extinction.
To prevent decrepit politicians who already had their chance from usurping the resources of the next generation and pulling up the ladder behind them?
You know... Octopus politicians
Pro: they die shortly after mating
Con: they leave hundreds of nepobabies
Hmmm.... Looking at Cthulu and not sure what to think about here
Stayed a virgin long enough for the wizard powers to really kick in.
Evolution doesn't care what happens to you after reproduction because you've already passed on your genes at that point
I mean, yes, but if you're not a vegetable afterwards, you will have more chances to reproduce. Therefore passing on your genes more
Evolution doesn't make deliberate, strategic choices. Random mutations result in new behaviors/properties that may or may not be beneficial, and selection removes those mutations that prevent reproduction from the gene pool. Not every mutation will be beneficial, but as long as it's not harmful enough to stop reproduction, it can persist.
If there were two groups of octopuses, one with the self-destructive behavior and one without, then there would be pressure from competition. In that situation, your point would have more of an impact. But without that pressure, there's nothing to drive the selection. And the mutation won't occur just because it would be helpful for it to do so - it's random.
At least, that's how I understand it. I'm not a biologist or anything.
yeah but octopi are intensely successful hunters. this may be either a mechanism that helps prevent resource scarcity, or it could prevent parent/offspring mating
They also lay tens of thousands of eggs at once.
Take that point and explain humans living to about 100 after breeding from 20 to 40, and kids taking ~15 years to become good enough
Human tribes doing well is good for making children successful, old women have much better skills in finding whatever plant matter they're gathering, old men are better at tracking and stalking prey. The old people teach the young.
We evolved towards longer lifespans because groups that live longer survive and continue better
Reproduction is the goal. It could be as simple as giving the young a chance to out compete their r****ded parents for limited food.