Games
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Most souls likes. The marketing on those games is pure genius. No budget for an actual story? No problem! Let's hide some nebulous lore in item descriptions so youtubers can sell their head cannon as "the story". Oh there's only enough money for 8 hours of gameplay? I have a solution! Let's remove the save system everyone got used to these past 20 years so the player has to constantly redo our content just to get to the boss he's trying to beat. We'll sell that unecessary tedium as "difficulty". And people are gobbling that stupid mechanic up because it allows them to flaunt their e-peen, although it just shows they have more time time than skills.
I heard them called rollslop
iframing the haters >>>
That's brutal
I think fromsoft shot themselves in the foot there. I really enjoyed dark souls 2 because there were a lot of enemies that your positioning and movement were more important than spamming dodge at the exact right time. Then 3 and elden ring came out, and it's just ocarina of time, except instead of across hyrule field it's across the anime glowing lines.
Don't you know, every item comes with a little laminated card to give you some mostly-irrelevant quote!
Hey those quotes are like catnip to a generation who grew up playing JRPGs that could go 10 hours in between meeting any speaking character!
I love building my own worlds, and sometimes I catch myself building head canon around unexplained or poorly explained aspects of games I play, but sometimes I get the sneaking suspicion the fans put way more thought and effort into their fanon than the devs did to the official canon.
I adore soulslikes and totally disagree with you but I won't argue people who flaunt how good they are for beating them are really annoying.
I like Soulslikes NOT made by FromSoftware. Those people don’t get The GitGud Apologist System(R) for any flaws, so they actually have to design well.
My favorite is Another Crab’s Treasure ; mostly because far from being a meme, it literally has the best story and character writing - both humorous and serious - of any Soulslike I’ve played. Fuck vague item description lore driven by fanfic.
That ending hit me way harder than it had any right to.
If you haven't played it, try hollow knight. It also doesn't do those things. It's relatively clear about the story that you need to know and why you're doing things.
I’ve played Hollow Knight all the way through to the end, and I don’t think I remember anything about the story; just some generic “spreading rot” vibe.
That’s fine for me because it’s not a high point of the game.
It's the nebulous lore part that really gets me. Other games have done the items=lore part before, but weren't so fart-sniffing about it.
Obligatory:
I mean... a little bit of that is a good game design. I'd rather have some things that are just 'characters living their own lives in universe' rather than everything revolving around the character's effect on the world. Fromsoft just goes overboard with some of it.
I do enjoy Soulslikes, but I honestly do so despite those things and not because of them. I do think you have a general point.
Not saying anyone's wrong, but I'm not sure I would like them as much unless they had those things.
I'm sure improvements could be made, but I feel like reducing the friction too much would rob the games of a certain flow that only arises from being forced to really get familiar with a run.
I don't have the time for it anymore so can't play these games anymore, but when I did...
To me, a good Souls games make you feel an exhilarating level of thrill and satisfaction from beating a tough boss that no other game does.
Beating the final boss of Sekiro, Nine Sols, Lies of P, and Silksong was a feeling no other game could provide. I am constantly looking forward to the next big Souls games that create that level of challenge that both feels impossibly hard, but yet you know you can do it and can see the path to winning if you keep trying.
Nine Sols is a damn masterpiece.
The skill ceiling for that game is so incredibly high, and the floor is high enough to make sure you really understand the combat system.
I only discovered it a few weeks ago and I can't seem to stop playing even as my ass gets cut off and handed to me.
It's just so satisfying that it's hard to put into words.
Elden Ring did fix some of runbacks with the stake of Marika before the boss room. Yet, some still exist and are annoying asf.
Don't agree with 8h of gameplay though. Even if runbacks were fixed, that wouldn't go under 100.
Do you mean Elden Ring wouldn't go under 100?
My save file is legit ~650 hours. And I've never restarted.
The "You earn every defeat" concept of Soulslikes is part of their appeal. I haven't beaten many (Hollow Knight, Tunic, and if you care to count it Metroid Dread) but the feeling after fighting a boss, walking away, wondering if I should just quit altogether, then coming back a few days later to beat it is amazing.
The genre could absolutely use a shot in the arm regarding setting and tone. You're always always wandering around the bleak ruins of a fallen civilization on a possibly hopeless quest. Tunic adds some interesting stuff with its use of knowledge-based progression (I both love and hate that writing system).
I think the final boss of Metroid Dread feels like a proper Souls boss, but a much easier one than most Souls bosses. Which is fine, it was fun and well designed.