this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2024
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    [–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 194 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Planned obsolescence is one of the major engines that keep our current system of oligarchic hypercapitalism alive. Won't anybody think of the poor oligarchs?!?

    [–] huginn@feddit.it 137 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    Resources are just way cheaper than developers.

    It's a lot cheaper to have double the ram than it is to pay for someone to optimize your code.

    And if you're working with code that requires that serious of resource optimization you'll invariably end up with low level code libraries that are hard to maintain.

    ... But fuck the Always on internet connection and DRM for sure.

    [–] rbn@sopuli.xyz 109 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    If you consider only the RAM on the developers' PCs maybe. If you count in thousands of customer PCs then optimizing the code outperforms hardware upgrades pretty fast. If because of a new Windows feature millions have to buy new hardware that's pretty desastrous from a sustainability point of view.

    [–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 46 points 5 months ago

    But that's just more business!

    [–] huginn@feddit.it 13 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    Last time I checked - your personal computer wasn't a company cost.

    Until it is nothing changes - and to be totally frank the last thing I want is to be on a corporate machine at home.

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    [–] FlapJackFlapper@lemm.ee 102 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Reminds me of a funny story I heard Tom Petty once tell. Apparently, he had a buddy with a POS car with a crappy stereo, and Tom insisted that all his records had to be mixed and mastered not so that they sound great on the studio's million dollar equipment but in his friend's car.

    [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 42 points 5 months ago

    That's how my professors instructed me to mix. To make it sound as good on shitty speakers as possible and also sound good on expensive systems.

    [–] tfw_no_toiletpaper@lemmy.world 37 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

    Reminds me of the ass audio mixing in movies where it is only enjoyable in a 7.1 cinema or your rich friends home theater but not on your own setup

    [–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 20 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    It seems we've lost sight of reality there.

    As we don't intend to attend much cinema any more, I hope they bring back essentially a Dolby Noise Switch for movies. I don't want to sacrifice too much, but booming noise followed by what comes out as whispered dialogue really cheapens the experience.

    I hope they can find a process that gives us back a sound track for the sub-17:7 sound system.

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    [–] Lorindol@sopuli.xyz 29 points 5 months ago

    I had the same exact approach back in the late 90's. My friends had several band projects and when they were mixing their demos, I insisted that if the mixes sound good in a standard car stereo, they'll sound good anywhere.

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    [–] puchaczyk@lemmy.blahaj.zone 81 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Most of the abstractions, frameworks, "bloats", etc. are there to make development easier and therefore cheaper, but to run such software you need a more and more expensive hardware. In a way it is just pushing some of the development costs onto a consumer.

    [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 29 points 5 months ago

    Most of the abstractions, frameworks, “bloats”, etc. are there to make development easier and therefore cheaper

    That's true to an extent. But I've been on the back side of this kind of development, and the frameworks can quickly become their own arcane esoteric beasts. One guy implements the "quick and easy" framework (with 16 gb of bloat) and then fucks off to do other things without letting anyone else know how to best use it. Then half-dozen coders that come in behind have no idea how to do anything and end up making these bizarre hacks and spaghetti code patches to do what the framework was already doing, but slower and worse.

    The end result is a program that needs top of the line hardware to execute an oversized pile of javascripts.

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    [–] jpeps@lemmy.world 66 points 5 months ago (16 children)

    Reminds me of the UK's Government Digital Services, who want to digitise government processes but also have a responsibility to keep that service as accessible and streamlined as possible, so that even a homeless person using a £10 phone on a 2G data service still has an acceptable experience.

    An example. Here they painstakingly remove JQuery (most modern frameworks are way too big) from the site and shave 32Kb off the site size.

    [–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 34 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    That's the most professional comment section I've ever fucking seen.

    [–] draughtcyclist@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago

    Website is amazingly responsive as well, seems to be working.

    [–] ameancow@lemmy.world 19 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    Hasn't been linked to reddit yet probably.

    Getting away from reddit has shown me that there are unspoiled places in the digital world out there, communities of people who actually care about the topic and not performatism and internet attention.

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    [–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 51 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    When my dad died suddenly in 2015 and I cleared out his office at his job, I spun down his Win95 machine that he'd been using for essential coding and testing. My father was that programmer—the one who directly spoke to a limited number of clients and stakeholders because he had a tendency to ask people if they were stupid.

    [–] theangryseal@lemmy.world 40 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    Your dad sounds like the childhood hero of mine who got me into computers.

    Severe ADHD prevented me from ever learning to code, but I became damn good at repairs and things and just general understanding of computers because he was available to ask questions at almost any time.

    He went to school auctions every year and got me a pile of hardware to learn from. He never asked for anything in exchange. All around great guy.

    I heard him on the phone a few times dealing with the people who he worked with though. Good god he was mean. I couldn’t imagine him being that way with me ever, but he was brutal when it came to work and money.

    A dude called him one time while I was sitting there, he listened for a few minutes and he said, “I’ve got a 14 year old kid here, he’s been doing this stuff for about 2 years. I’m gonna let him walk you through this for the 10th fucking time because you’re a goddamn idiot and feeling like a fool when you hang up the phone with a grown man isn’t teaching you any lessons. Maybe get a pen for this one because if I have to remind that a child walked you through it last time, I’m not going to be so fucking friendly.” I was so nervous, apologized multiple times, when I was finished walking him through it he took the phone and said, “now don’t you feel stupid? 25 years and this kid just schooled you.”

    He told me, “you gotta be real with idiots or they’ll bother you with stupid problems every single day of your life.”

    I wish that lesson had stuck haha, it just wasn’t in me to be mean. As a result, a hobby that I was passionate about all of my life is something I avoid like the plague now. People ruined it for me by bothering me constantly.

    [–] Baggie@lemmy.zip 19 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    I think it's nice of you not to be mean. The industry turned me a bit mean as a defence against people constantly shoveling more work onto me. Try to protect it if you can! I miss my lack of mean dearly.

    [–] theangryseal@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    I seriously have a boiling hatred for computers now because I couldn’t even be a little bit mean. I’ve snapped a few times when people blamed me for problems years after I worked on their stuff, but mostly I just got trampled on and robbed at every turn because I didn’t want to upset anyone.

    By the time I was mean enough to demand payment and things like that, I already hated it.

    My daughter is passionate about computers, so nowadays if I so much as want to tweak something a little bit I let her do it unless she don’t want to. I don’t want to burn her out too.

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    [–] Magister@lemmy.world 50 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    When you see what ONE coder was able to do in the 80s, with 64K of RAM, on a 4MHz CPU, and in assembly, it's quite incredible. I miss my Amstrad CPC6128 and all its good games.

    [–] prole@sh.itjust.works 42 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

    Still happens.

    Animal Well was coded by one guy, and it was ~35mb on release (I think it's above 100 at this point after a few updates, but still). The game is massive and pretty complex. And it's the size of an SNES ROM.

    Dwarf Fortress has to be one of the most complex simulations ever created, developed by two brothers and given out for free for several decades. The game, prior to adding actual graphics, DF was ~100mb and the Steam version is still remarkably compact.

    I am consistently amazed by people's ingenuity with this stuff.

    [–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    SNES ROMs were actually around 4MB. People always spoke about them being 32 Meg or whatever, but they meant megabits.

    I did like Animal Well, but gave up after looking at one of the bunny solutions and deciding I didn't have the patience for that.

    I think most of the size of games is just graphics and audio. I think the code for most games is pretty small, but for some godforsaken reason it's really important that they include incredibly detailed doorknobs and 50 hours of high quality speech for a dozen languages in raw format.

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    [–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 49 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    Doesn't really matter what your developers run on, you need your QA to be running on trash hardware.

    We can even cut out the middleman and optimize unity and unreal to run on crap

    [–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago

    Jokes on you, my corporate job has crippled the Mac they gave us so much that EVERYONE has trash hardware!

    [–] manicdave@feddit.uk 46 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    I can think of a few games franchises that wouldn't have trashed their reputation if they'd have had an internal rule like "if it doesn't play on 50% of the machines on Steam's hardware survey, it's not going out"

    [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 24 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    I think it's given us a big wave of "Return to pixelated tradition" style games. When you see 16-bit sprites in the teaser, you can feel reasonably confident your computer will run it.

    [–] manicdave@feddit.uk 29 points 5 months ago

    I don't mind if indie devs try something experimental that melts your computer. Like beamNG needs a decent computer but the target audience kinda knows about that sort of stuff.

    The problem is with games like cities skylines 2. Most people buying that game probably don't even know how much RAM they have, it shouldn't be unplayable on a mid range PC.

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    [–] yamanii@lemmy.world 43 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    I knew someone that refused to upgrade the programmer's workstation precisely because it would have been a big leap in performance compared to what their costumers used the software on. Needless to say the program was very fast even on weaker hardware.

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    [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 37 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    We need more shorter games, made by happier devs paid more to work fewer hours, with worse graphics.

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    [–] WolfLink@lemmy.ml 31 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    The ideal is “plays fine at lowest graphics settings on old hardware” while having “high graphics settings” that look fantastic but requires too-of-the-line hardware to play reasonably.

    Generally this is almost impossible to achieve.

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    [–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 22 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    I think that every operating system needs to a have a "do what the fuck I told you to" mode, especially as it comes to networking. I've come close to going full luddite just trying to get smart home devices to connect to a non-internet connected network, (which of course you can only do through a dogshit app) and having my phone constantly try to drop that network since it has no Internet.

    I get the desire to have everything be as hand-holdy as possible, but it's really frustrating when the hand holding way doesn't work and there is absolutely zero recourse, and even less ability to tell what went wrong.

    Then there's my day job, where I get do deal with crappy industrial software, flakey Internet connections and really annoying things like hyper-v occupying network ports when it's not even open.

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    [–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 22 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    But .. where is the innovation (and also Alt text?)

    [–] lord_admiral@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

    Probably an innovative revelation of the concept of "bloat".

    [–] Gamers_Mate@kbin.run 15 points 5 months ago

    Image description.

    The image is a screenshot of a tumblr post by user elbiotipo.

    My solution for bloatware is this: by law you should hire in every programming team someone who is Like, A Guy who has a crappy laptop with 4GB and an integrated graphics card, no scratch that, 2 GB of RAM, and a rural internet connection. And every time someone in your team proposes to add shit like NPCs with visible pores or ray tracing or all the bloatware that Windows, Adobe, etc. are doing now, they have to come back and try your project in the Guy’s laptop and answer to him. He is allowed to insult you and humilliate you if it doesn’t work in his laptop, and you should by law apologize and optimize it for him. If you try to put any kind of DRM or permanent internet connection, he is legally allowed to shoot you.

    With about 5 or 10 years of that, we will fix the world.

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    [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 21 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    The thing is that developers tend to keep things as simple as possible and overly optimize stuff, when you find bloatware is usually some manager that decided to have it.

    [–] herrvogel@lemmy.world 35 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    It's the marketing. Always the marketing. Especially the SEO guys.

    One SEO guy we worked with told us not to cache our websites because he was convinced that it helped. He badgered us about it for weeks, showed us some bullshit graphs and whatever. One day we got fed up and told him we'd disabled the cache and he should keep an eye out for any improvements in traffic. Obviously we didn't actually do anything of the sort because we are not fucking idiots. Couple days later the SEO wizard sent us another bunch of figures and said "see, I told you it would help I know my stuff". He did not, in fact, know his stuff.

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    [–] lord_admiral@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

    The thing is

    Of course, we developers like to optimize and patch source code all the time. If I am suddenly woken up at three in the morning, I will immediately open the lid of my laptop and start optimizing the code. That's our little developer secret.

    [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    If I can't type the program into my TRS-80 from a computer magazine I don't trust it.

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    [–] HStone32@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    I'm training to work in hardware currently. Its my hope that there at least, people still care about min-maxing power vs performance.

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    [–] mariusafa@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 5 months ago

    This is the way. Most of the games today run as shit because people doesn't know or care about computer resources management.

    [–] outerspace@lemmy.zip 13 points 5 months ago

    Better to run a whole generation , so like 30 years so people would start planning the upgrades ahead for when everyone is ready

    [–] Ugurcan@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    Stop using JS/Node for even brewing your coffee and see this problem resolves itself.

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    [–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 12 points 5 months ago

    I think I already posted this at some point, but Software Disenchantment is always worth mentioning in this context.

    [–] sasquash@sopuli.xyz 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

    But how would you implement that new Microsoft Screenshot surveillance bullshit feature? Just imagine what a giant waste of resources that is. You have something on your screen which is information and mostly likely already in a good form to process like text. But it makes a screenshot every few seconds and uses some "AI" to make the already existing information searchable again from a fucking screenshot??? Maybe I missed something but that is how I understood the feature.

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