this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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Can a PhD (Or a doctorate or an MD) choose to use a gendered title instead of Dr? For example, suppose an AFAB PhD comes out as a trans man. Is he allowed to use Mister to affirm his gender? Or is he stuck in the gender neutral Doctor zone forever? Does he have to get knighted by the British monarchy in order to get a masculine title?

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[–] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 48 points 1 week ago (4 children)

"Doctor" is a title you become entitled to use by virtue of holding a PhD - you have the option to use it, but nothing compels you to do so if you don't want to.

Note that the reverse isn't true - representing yourself as holding a doctorate when you don't can be a fairly serious crime - if you did for the purposes of getting money from some, then it's probably some kind of fraud

[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 week ago

I mean, it is fraud if you represent yourself as a doctor of a field you don’t have a doctorate in. But for example, you can be Albert Einstein, PHD will a focus in stupid and no one will care

[–] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 week ago

While misrepresenting yourself or your credentials can be fraud, the title of PhD/Doctor (outside of MD) is not regulated, at least not in the US. It's almost like an endorsement from the university that you passed their tests.

But that's not very regulated either, and there are countless certifying boards (Boards of Regents, typically).

Falsely claiming to have a PhD in Neuroscience from Harvard, or an honorary Doctorate of Fine Arts from Knox College, would be fraud. But just saying that you have a PhD without specifying anything more specific is not.

And it comes up regularly - an easy example is the author of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.

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[–] Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works 35 points 1 week ago

Most people with Ph.D don't use the Dr title out of a formal setting.

Between People thinking that you're a physicianand asking about their health, and people thinking you're pedantic. Better staying discrete.

[–] TheButtonJustSpins@infosec.pub 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

No one has to do anything. Live your life. Choose how you want to be addressed.

You don't hear lawyers going around being called Dr. Lastname, despite having JDs.

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

To be fair, lawyers get the much cooler Esquire, AND it is appended to the end of their name instead of the front. Definitely stands out more than the generic Doctor.

Although only a douchenozzle would insist on it being used.

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[–] satanmat@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Totally. 👍. Well said

Although I had a prof who was a JD who INSISTED on Dr. so she could be on par with the other instructors. But then no one liked her. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] meyotch@slrpnk.net 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

As a PhD holder who has worked in healthcare, I really couldn’t use the title doctor because the chance for confusion with a medical practitioner is too high. That’s fine by me, I only use the title on rare occasions such as when speaking publicly in my area of experience. Please just call me Meyotch.

[–] aalvare2@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Meyotch is an interesting suffix to a person’s name.

“I am Professor Patrick”

“Professor?”

Meyotch Professor Patrick!”

/s

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

I have a PhD, the only time I use my title is when booking tickets for trains or planes with German companies.

I'm a social scientist. Nobody hears the word "doctor" and thinks of a person like me.

[–] LavenderDay3544@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Meanwhile in certain countries people with an M.B.B.S. and no doctorate get to use the title of "doctor" as a matter of convention.

Funny how physicians have basically co-opted the title even when they technically do not possess the degree it refers to. And even funnier is that the word doctor means teacher in Latin so it would make much more sense that those with Ph.D.s, who are qualified to teach at the highest levels, should get to use the title over physicians most of whom do not teach anything at all unless they are medical school professors.

[–] drail@fedia.io 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

As a newly minted doctor, I prefer Dr. Drail because of the work I put in. I have seen three common name/title presentations though:

Dr. Drail

Dr. Drail, Ph.D.

Mr. Drail, Ph.D.

The last one obviously preserves a gendered title if desired. I tend to include my pronouns where applicable, as it makes clear my gender identity while allowing me to use the least cumbersome combo (Dr. Drail) without confusion. I haven't ever met someone who double stacks their honorifics (ie Dr. Mr. Drail), but if you want to make clear your gender, there aren't any rules against it, and it is common in some non-english speaking cultures.

Ultimately, it is your title, your honorific, so you get to decide how to present it. I prefer to just go by my name 90% of the time, but while applying for jobs or introducing myself in a profesional capacity, Dr. Drail (he/him/his) is a really easy way to get all the info across succinctly.

[–] actionjbone@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

(The weirdest part is, his last name isn't Drail. It's Gomez.)

[–] drail@fedia.io 6 points 1 week ago

Lol, no, but I'd be damned if I put my actual name out on the internet. Dr. Drail is my profesional anonymous title.

I've seen honorifics double stacked for religious leaders.

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

I said I would always correct people after I defended. Almost 10 years later I never do. Best of luck with the eternal annoyance!

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

There’s no law that says you have to use ‘dr’ or another title; and can instead go by Mr, if he wants.

It might also be possible to go by dr [first name], if that solves the question of gender affirmation. Might also be simpler/easier to get people to go along with it.

Also, I’d happily Knight him myself. There’s no law in America saying I can’t, either. so, there.

(And now I want to create a chivalric order. I’m thinking, cosplay while we clean up parks and/or whatever like that.) (the chivalric order of do-goodery.)

[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

My chivalric order of bad-assery will stand nearby and make fun of you.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Real badasses grab a broom and a rake.

After catching the villainous curs, of course.

[–] SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Double up. Assert dominance. Demand to be referred to as 'Mister Doctor'. Hmm.. 'Doctor Mister'? I think I like Mr. Dr. better.

[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If you're a professor with a doctorate in Germany, the official way to refer to you is Professor Doctor [last name]. If you hold two doctorates it's Professor Doctor Doctor.

Professor is also a serious and registered title in Germany. You can't just start a school and start handing out professorships without oversight and approval.

[–] SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

TIL. That's actually really cool info!

[–] aasatru@kbin.earth 1 points 1 week ago

And you keep herr/frau, so technically it would be Frau Professorin Doctor Jones.

Generally when opening an email you condense it, and simply refer to the person as "Sehr geehrte Frau Professorin Jones" - Very honoured ms. professor Jones. They're very humble.

[–] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Dr first is the syntax I subscribe to

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

You can use your full name plus PhD at the end, that should make it easier for people to get the gender of the person, and looks better for those who are not medical doctors.

[–] Kintarian@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I don't know for sure but for me, if I spent 10 years in college, and two or three years in an internship, working 15 hours a day, sometimes 20 or 30 hours straight with no sleep, I would think that having the doctor title is something I worked hard to earn.

[–] Contramuffin@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Most PhD's in university actually prefer to be called by their first name. As a graduate student, one of the most jarring culture shocks is to learn to call professors by their first names. At least that's the case in the US, not sure about elsewhere

[–] Kintarian@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I see, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

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[–] morphballganon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I had a philosophy prof who said the title depends on the setting. If he were speaking at a conference, it's Dr. If he was teaching at a school, it's Professor.

If you're in a setting where those titles aren't relevant, don't use them.

[–] rhythmisaprancer@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

As I understand it, Doctor is originally a male form, and Doctrix is female. FWIW

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 week ago (3 children)

What do you call an enby doctor?

I had to look up enby, and you have a good point. I don't have an answer to that. I'm not sure what the best option is there. I think that Doctor is viewed as neutral at this point, but it isn't for me to say. I mentioned the above for historical purposes but we could have options!

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

I call an enby doctor Doctor, ditto with men and women doctors - I tend to celebrate gender neutral titles because gender isn't relevant to professional interactions. Someone intentionally misgendering is an asshole - but it's unfortunate how much emphasis our language places on gender.

[–] False@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

I don't know what that is but you probably also call them doctor because no one says "doctrix" anyways

[–] EleventhHour@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you’re also a teacher, you get to use “Professor”

[–] Apepollo11@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Only in the US and a select few other countries...

In other places, 'Professor' is a specific academic rank - there'll only be a few professors in a university.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

In those other areas there are plenty of other English titles you can use. "Instructor" is always fun!

[–] EleventhHour@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Pardon me for the lack of nuance in my previous comment, but, yeah, this is what I was talking about.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Follow up question, a trans woman with a PhD can use Doctress as title?

[–] vzq@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Canonically, no. But fucking go for it sister.

[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

As others say, it's not required and you very much can use other titles. Most stick with Dr because of how much time and effort and stress went into it, although I only use Dr. because with my first name it let's me go by the name of a certain Simpsons character. "Hello, everybody!"

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Hi, Dr Nick!

[–] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

So far as I'm aware, non-occupational pre-nominal honorifics inure to the individual, so generally speaking, if that person doesn't want to use their title, they don't have to. And in the same way that most people will go along with someone's acquired honorific of Dr or Capt or whatever, the same should also apply if someone expressed that their honorific should not used. I have no citation for this, other than what I've seen in life.

As a sidenote, in Britain, I understand that medical doctors are able to use the pre-nominal of Dr, but surgeons specifically will drop the Dr and just use Mr. or Ms.

Apparently this stems from ages ago when surgeons did not have to have a medical degree, and the doctoral view was that surgeons were akin to butchers. This may have reflected the crudeness of early surgeries. As a result, surgeons developed a history of being Mr -- it's not clear if female surgeons also took on Mr. So after the various laws/rules changed so that surgeons also had to be medically qualified, they still kept the tradition of Mr.

Thus, a male student of medicine in the UK could go from Mr, graduate to Dr, and then graduate as a surgeon to Mr again. I have no citation for this either, but it's plausible for the ardently traditional British nation.

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