this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
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[–] Hugin@lemmy.world 140 points 1 week ago (6 children)

This article is a mess and badly written.

Basicly magnetism comes from electron spin orientation. There are two well known spin configurations.

Ferromagnetism: there is at least one electron with a spin that isn't paired with an opposite spin electron. That atom then has a north and south magnetic pole. Like iron. Arrange all the atoms pointing the same way and you have a refrigerator magnet.

antiferromagnetism: all the electrons in the atom are paired with an opposite spin election. It's complicated but basically they couple together and there isn't a magnetic pole outside the atom. Like in copper.

Altermagnetism: what this article is about. You have a crystal of atoms with an unpaired electrons. The crystal would normally be ferromanetic. However they are arranged in a regular set of pairs that cause the electron spin to cancle out. Think of a checkerboard pattern where each white square cancels a black square next to it.

The antiferromagnetism and altermagnetism both have the spins cancelled out but the mechanism is different so there are different properties. Kramers degenerate vs wavevector.

In theory this gives you an extra state spin. So a magnetic drive uses a pattern of north and south to encode information. Ie NNSN becomes 0010.

With this you have north, south but also spin left, right. So you can encode more information.

[–] infinite_ass@leminal.space 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

How do you control the spin of an electron?

[–] Hugin@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

I know the usual way uses oscillating magnetic fields and it being very cold. There are other ways i'm not familiar with. I'm a classical computer engineer not a quantum computer engineer. I'm more used to energy bandgap then spin control.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Interesting… so like, if one were to use it on magnetic storage, you’d theoretically be able to work in quaternary?

[–] Hugin@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago
[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago

While it is true Kramer outed himself as a degenerate at the smile factory in philadelphia I don't believe this is an appropriate place to bring it up.

[–] deltapi@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Sorta like linear vs. circular polarization in radio transmissions?

[–] Hugin@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

In the sense that it's two different but similar states.

I'm pretty sure we can say it's not actually spin now. Electrons have a charge and a magnetic field. If they are charged and spinning that world generate a magnetic field. So spin was used to describe the orientation of the field. The name for the state stuck

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

you seem knowledgeable on this topic. Enough that I hope you could answer my questions.

with this new state, would it make it easier/possible to improve not just efficiency but throughput of permanent magnetic motors?

also, you mentioned the programmability of magnets. would this allow us to build more "task specific" electric motors? for example; a motor with high torque at low rpms and low torque at high rpms?

[–] Hugin@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

This is a bit outside my field. That said I don't think so.

The overall crystal should be very weakly magnetic. You want strong magnet with a high flux density so the electric field can push or pull against it.

I think this would be more useful in quantum computing as you get two bits polarity and spin. Or high density storage.

But who knows. There are clever physicists out there that know a lot more about this. They presumably see many more possibilities then I do. If the effect can be interrupted you could stitch between states. Like turning a magnet on and off. That would have uses like you described.

[–] Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk 15 points 1 week ago

Thank you. That was explained very well!

[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 59 points 1 week ago (2 children)
[–] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago

I have no idea about the numbering, but I know of at least

  • Ferromagnetism (like a fridge magnet)
  • Antiferromagnetism (opposite of ferromagnetism at an atomic level)
  • Diamagnetism (makes superconductors float)
  • Paramagnetism (like that spinny frog)

These all indicate how a material reacts to a magnetic field. This article discusses "altermagnetism", which is somewhere between ferromagnetism and antiferromagnetism.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 18 points 1 week ago (4 children)
[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 38 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is that the kind that jumps out of aeroplanes?

[–] kewko@sh.itjust.works 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Nah, it's the one with the chair

[–] metaStatic@kbin.earth 20 points 1 week ago

This thread is already too smart for me

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

Pretty sure it's the other non-brand name for acetaminophen.

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[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 37 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago (12 children)

Unironically, magnetism is similar to charge, which is similar to mass.

You (probably) wouldn't ask "But why does an atom weigh anything?" or "why do opposite charges attract?" All these things are just intrinsic properties of matter: they just have them.

So the answer to questions regarding why anything has mass/charge/magnetic moment really come down to "they just do."

Now, if you want to talk about how and why magnets work at a macroscopic scale, we can have a long and interesting chat about long range ordering and phase transitions, but I'll leave that for now :)

[–] Ageroth@reddthat.com 18 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There's a lot more to it than "they just do" we just don't know yet because there's actually a lot we don't understand about the fundamental properties of, well, fundamental particles.

See the higgs boson as for why matter has mass. We used to say "inertia is a property of matter" but some clever fucks figured out why and then proved it.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I would argue that the Higgs mechanism is just that: A mechanism for explaining where mass comes from. You could explain charge in a similar way by saying "because the particles are made of a certain amount of up or down quarks".

Neither of these explanations answer the underlying question "but why does the Higgs mechanism give things mass?" or "but why do up/down quarks give things charge?".

My point is that, at some stage, you get to the point of "the Higgs boson has mass because it's an intrinsic property of the Higgs boson", which is tantamount to "they just do".

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[–] jnoliv@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

This reminded me of Richard Feynman talking about this very topic. Always enjoy rewatching it.

https://youtu.be/MO0r930Sn_8

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 1 points 1 day ago

The first time I saw this and he got to the part about your hand not going through the chair, and how magnets just do the same thing at a distance, it was like seeing the Matrix briefly. Definite "oh shit" moment. Also gave me a flashback of Sagan telling me that matter was basically comprised of nothing. By accident Lucas was right - the Force is all around us, binding us. It's all forces.

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[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

In addition to "they just do", the answer is also "we don't know." In that sense, icp was right.

[–] geomela@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 days ago

💯༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 🤡

[–] sploosh@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Well, we do know why they work, but we don't know why the way they work works.

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[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's funny because the actual physics explanation is "they just do".

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's the craziest part of quantum physics. "Why is this stuff having the observed behavior?"

Based on all evidence and theory, the answer is that it quite literally just does.

[–] infinite_ass@leminal.space 1 points 6 days ago

That is always the foundation. The axiomatic ground.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Water, fire, air and dirt

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

And I don't wanna talk to a scientist

Y'all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago

Is it animal magnetism?

[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (8 children)

I'm too stupid to understand what that article is talking about. Can someone translate to layman's terms?

[–] Securus777@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I could be wrong but as I understand it. You know magnetism based on positive and negative poles, now they can read and write SPIN, which is another property of electrons (that are in everything, even things nonmagnetic). If it's true, and scales, we could use non-ferrous better materials to achieve what we do currently with ferrous materials.

[–] drunkosaurus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sooo we can magnetize nonmagnetic materials?

Tractor beam when?

[–] Securus777@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sadly still magnetic force that loses strength exponentially based on distance

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[–] FunnyUsername@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Can i make a ufo out of this?

[–] massive_bereavement@fedia.io 7 points 1 week ago

Worth a read, I feel like I read some hard sci-fi.

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