this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2025
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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 149 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

I hate to say it, but now isn't the only time it's a problem.

This whole "you just need to practice more CBT skills" has been bullshit for like twenty fucking years or more.

I can "check the facts" all I want, if the facts are that things are irreparably and totally fucked and that this irreparability is hurting me directly I can't "happy thoughts" my fucking way out of it.

I'm really tired of being told "you can't change other people, so you need to work on yourself" when other people are allowed to be giant assholes their whole lives who never have to put one ounce of work into themselves and it's me and everyone else who is a halfway decent person who has to spend their lives fucking working on ourselves.

The system is god damned broken and has been god damned broken when we practically reward the worst of us with never having to try to do better while telling the best of us that we just have to do better.

I'm really, really over it.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 48 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Overthrowing capitalism is a pretty effective coping mechanism from what I hear.

[–] RandomVideos@programming.dev 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Isnt that almost impossible? I wonder how many lotteries you would have to win in a row to be as lucky as you would need to convince billions of people capitalism may be worse than another system and to do something about it

[–] riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

you dont have to convince people based on dry theory. revolution does not necessairily mean a momentary violent insurection that overthrows what was. a revolution can be the process in which you create the structures you wish to see in the future, in the here and now. you then convince people by showing them first hand that it works and that it benefits them.

here is a great video on how to construct the revolution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9K6ISx8QEQ

it has a bit of a slow start, and feels academic but its very very insightful. absolute recomendation.

[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Big recommend on that video and Anark's whole channel.

This is a short clip he put out recently that makes a really good case for building the new world by fixing today's problems, which makes life better now, which is something people seem to miss.

Like we're not just rolling the dice that what we do now might pay off for future generations. We're not just "planting trees in whose shade we will never sit", we are planting seeds we can reap soon, because we need to eat, so we're solving that problem.

And satisfyingly, this brings us full-circle to addressing the point of the original post.

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[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago

CBT was designed for people who had severe behavioral issues.

The idea that it should be done by everyone is because extracting profit by selling cookie cutter solutions is the perversion of capitalism.

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

What you need to realize though is that you can only affect so much. Mostly if you need help you should help yourself first. Then if you're happy and capable, you need to help others. Not the other way around. So get with it and don't hang yourself up on "shit is fucked". It is, but it has been worse and it also can get worse. But that doesn't really matter for now, help yourself first if you need to.

Like ofc it's not wrong to also help others.

The situation is hopeless and has always been. But that's not as bad as it sounds and it frees you and me from the burden of the world. Do what you can, that's enough.

I can highly recommend this video for reflecting on hopeless thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJaE_BvLK6U

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I'm not having hopeless thoughts.

I'm having issues with CBT being used as a way to teach people learned helplessness where "you can't affect other people." Because, actually, society in aggregate (often called governance) can totally influence, affect, and change other people. We seemingly have given up on holding people who break the social contract accountable for anything while forcing those who do uphold the social contract accountable for everything. Fascism is the end-stage manifestation of that.

In my experience, in practice, it does more to teach people they can't affect change more than it teaches them they can. It teaches them to be helpless on purpose.

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This isn’t what cbt is

Cbt is an extension of equanimity, learning ways to control your emotional response to things. You don’t deny your emotional response, but you moderate it

This is advantageous because what’s more effective? Dwelling in rumination and suffering? Or acknowledging that we are angry and frustrated and moving forward to something actionable when that is possible and moving on with our lives when it is not? This is where we get into more DBT skills and stuff like radical acceptance but it’s similar

This is what happens with these things in the modern context though. They get displayed at surface value with pop psychology social media bullshit and perverted. Then stoicism becomes “just deny your feelings” by right wing dipshits who have never read meditations when it is also about allowing yourself to feel and express feelings but not letting them control you through a practice of reflection.

CBT is essentially just an update of philosophy like this and Buddhism for the modern context with more explicit guidance and some neurology thrown in.

“You can’t affect other people” is incorrect as you say. While we do have to concede that other people’s willingness to change their behavior and perspective is ultimately up to them we can still advocate and influence. At the same time we can recognize that this process can be draining and harmful to ourselves and at a certain point maybe we need to take a step back. You can’t save fix a house with a rotting foundation.

Bad implementation doesn’t make CBT bad.

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[–] Sanguine@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Just a heads up I won't be offering any back and forth here, too busy.

But for anyone reading, CBT is not what is being described here. CBT / DBT are effective and should still be explored as viable options.

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[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Mostly if you need help you should help yourself first. Then if you’re happy and capable, you need to help others. Not the other way around

I think you're not getting what they're saying. Of course you can only work on yourself, but therapy doesn't exist in a vacuum and frequently you're just learning coping mechanisms for the status quo. Which is frequently good, being able to cope with society and remain functional is good, but people often have coping as the goal instead of merely being a step.

This person wants to change the system so coping mechanisms aren't necessary to deal with society

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[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 63 points 1 week ago (4 children)

This is actually touching on a real new approach to mental healthcare, which is just accepting that "life is shit" and you're kinda on your own to find meaning in it, or get to the next high-point that makes it worth living.

We have to stop expecting things to be stable, normal and comfortable. We had a good, smooth run, things are going back to normal now.

[–] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 27 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Humanity having enough power that their mistakes can destroy the world isn't normal. Our failure tolerances were calibrated in a world where the damage we did to nature was temporary. That's not true anymore; we either get our act together now or go extinct.

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

We ain't going "extinct" and people quite frankly need to realize that "extinction" is an incredibly low bar to clear. Billions will die and millennia of suffering lay before us, but the human species will be a-ok, especially if our industrial civilizations collapse. It's a fire that'll burn itself out, and thus history will continue.

The human species isn't people, but a term to describe our shared code; code that isn't you or the people you love. We are more than just our long term machinery. If we only focus on the forest, we miss the well being of the trees. I'd rather all our bloodlines end and us live lives focused on ourselves, than have an eternity of worshipping constructs that force us to live for them.

[–] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 14 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The Earth maintains homeostasis. Past 2 degrees warming, the current homeostasis systems break down. We don't know where the next homeostasis point is. It's probably a lot worse. It'll keep getting worse past the point we stop making it worse. Most of the species on earth will go extinct.

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[–] peregrin5@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago

Shit man. This hits home way too hard.

[–] psivchaz@reddthat.com 6 points 1 week ago

Putting it this way kind of makes it sound like modern therapy has reinvented Buddhism.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago (3 children)

This is an entirely different approach than most people are used to. My advice from a couple of combat deployments is to cultivate a task oriented mindset. What does that mean? It means worrying about the task you are doing right now and nothing else. That doesn't mean you never look at the bigger picture. But if you're at dinner, then you're at dinner and you enjoy that. You can check when the next protest is, after dinner. You take each day like this and before you know it we'll be voting Trump out of office.

[–] ericatty@infosec.pub 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Wow, so this is basically the technique I started when a close family member was dying of cancer.

"But if you're at dinner, then you're at dinner and you enjoy that"

I just want to add to this, give yourself permission to fully enjoy it and be happy in the moment. Don't beat yourself up for feeling joy when you know others are still in crisis.

Make a list on paper or digital and let all the problems wait while you enjoy the moment. It's okay to enjoy the moment.

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

before you know it we'll be voting Trump out of office.

No offense, but this is a weird comment. How are we going to vote him out of office? Are we just accepting that he's going to run for a third term? We can't let him do that.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

It was just a general sentiment but he's definitely going to try. And if his party supports him through all the protests then the best defense of Democracy is indeed going to be voting him out.

[–] laserm@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Next year are both senate and house elections. If we get blue 2/3ds in both chambers, we can pursue them to impeach Trump

[–] eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There will be no "voting maga out of office".

That ship has sailed.

[–] Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Don't comply in advance, don't take it for granted that the next election won't happen. They want you to cancel that election, don't do their work for them.

[–] eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago

Oh people will fill out ballots and there will be election maps, don't worry about that.

[–] TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Only worry about what you can control.

Great advice.

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 31 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Depressive realism sucks... and the shittiest people are immune to it.

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[–] xpinchx@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (12 children)

Hey guys this probably isn't the right place, but I'm new to mental health issues. About two weeks ago I started having crippling anxiety attacks, mostly at or right after work. I do intl logistics for my company so I've had a pulse on all this bullshit from the getgo.

At the same time I started having blood pressure issues, and the combination has a vicious feedback loop of anxiety > elevated heart issues > anxiety etc.

My doctor gave me 30 Xanax (and a plethora of heart meds), I've looked up self help type stuff to help with the anxiety... Mindfulness, breathing exercises, etc. Daily walks and exercise help the most but I feel so out of control of my emotions I don't really know what to do anymore.

Should I talk to my GP and get on something long term? Therapist? Keep trying self help?

I'm 38 and otherwise healthy, no depression, slightly overweight but physically active and eating healthy. I stopped all my vices (nicotine, alcohol, most weed I still take edibles CBD) and I don't know how to cope without being self destructive.

If anyone else is going through this and getting traction just let me know your experience I guess. I don't know anyone irl as affected as me so I mainly just want validation I'm not alone and there's a path forward.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don’t know anyone irl as affected as me so I mainly just want validation I’m not alone and there’s a path forward.

you can have that validation from me. spontaneous panic attacks or anxiety attacks can happen in the face of extreme danger, even if that danger would only be imaginary. in this case, it might be real, though, depending on your situation.

I assume you live in the US, since you didn't say.

What's important is that you make a long-term plan ("where do you see yourself in 30 years") that's as realistic as possible and also at least acceptable. Every time the panic attacks start just focus on that vision (and on the path to get there). That will calm you down and give you a clearer mind. However, it is utterly important that you make such a plan. Without such a plan, i am deeply convinced people cannot live healthy, happy lives.

[–] priapus@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

I would definitely recommend trying therapy. Self help and meds will both help, but, for me, therapy made the biggest difference in the long run.

[–] HappinessPill@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think you are very stressed, some heart medications reduce the heart rate effects of anxiety. Xanax reduce the mental anxiety, but it's very strong and you could become dependent on benzos creating another problem, they are best for short term management.

There some suplements that reduce cortisol levels, but also have a penthora of sife effects, they are called adaptogens, also SSRIs could reduce your anxiety without the risk of making you dependent.

I would search for another job also, if that's is a option for you.

I hope you can get the help you need.

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[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago

A therapist probably wouldn't hurt to give a try.

You could also take stock of sources of stress in your life, especially any that have emerged/increased in intensity in the last few months. At my previous job, my anxiety took a massive spike due to a crazy boss, layoffs hanging over everyone's heads and an increasing workload. Even on anxiety meds, I was getting massive headaches on a daily basis and would spend hours on the verge of being ill from it. Once I got laid off, the anxiety went back down to my more manageable baseline, and the medication became a lot more effective for managing it.

Obviously, just entirely leaving the situation isn't a great option for everyone (heck, I lost the best paid job I ever had in the process, which wasn't great), but even if that isn't feasible, it might give you some insight into how you might mitigate the issue.

Also, keep on going when treatments don't work. There's no magic bullet here that works for everyone, so while it can be frustrating, keep trying things until you land on something that does the trick for you.

[–] squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago

There are already some good suggestions in the other comments, I just want to add a point: Anxiety attacks can be a problem by themselves, but they may also be a symptom of something else. Insofar it is good to sort things out with a professional (therapist or psychologist) who can do the tests to determine what the root cause is.

Having said that, a personal addition: Mental and physical exhaustion can exacerbate mental health symptoms of all kinds and - to me - it sounds worth pointing out that you experience these anxiety attacks at or after work. So anything you can do to reduce the exhaustion may already help a little to alleviate symptoms. If you have a possibility to slow down a bit and ensure that you are well hydrated and that your blood sugar doesn't drop too much (ie. make sure you aren't famished) that could already help you to get a better grip on these anxiety attacks.

Either way: Stay strong, friend!

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[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This is exactly why I'm trying to limit news intake. I was kinda spiraling out with it all. I'll still do stuff, show up and whatever, but man. This regime is AWFUL for my mental health.

And like for good reason, I know that I'm right to be scared of what's happening but I gotta mediate this.

[–] ch00f@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, I had a realization after the election that I was basically consuming news as entertainment in place of other things I could be reading or doing. I'm voting, I'm attending protests, knowing more isn't going to change anything. It'll just make me feel worse.

[–] greenskye@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'm struggling so hard to just limit my knowledge. Does it really make a difference to me personally if I miss one of the fucked up things Trump does? If you're already radicalized, it doesn't really matter if he's done 20 things wrong or 50. There's no further room to sway your opinion and no further actions you can take. It's just beating your mental health into the ground for no benefit.

But God damn is hard to convince the algorithms you don't want to see that shit anymore. You truly can't even do the simplest thing online without it showing up.

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to not pay attention; I sure don't.

Some of us need to know if we need to leave and with what level of urgency.

Some of us will find out if we've been fired from our jobs through the news (federal employees) before we're even told by our bosses.

Some of us may need to choose our words and public persona more carefully as more and more groups are targeted for their beliefs, opinions, and identities.

[–] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

The psychological analogy here still counts. If you can't recognise your emotions, there's little to do about it. Worse, if you don't recognise your emotions they might break out in unpredictable places and ways.

[–] the_q@lemm.ee 20 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Being anxious and depressed is directly related to your awareness of the world around you. It's not okay to be okay.

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[–] desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

this is exactly why therapists seem to be total nutjobs in my opinion, they don't have actual solutions that work for any case where the symptoms are justified by the climate other than "leave the climate that's justifying it".

[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Why I like my therapist so much. She understands wholly what I mean, and she helps me to remember we can only control what we can. I can control my plants, in this case.

On a tangent just last week I, well, I was telling her a video game I play I was having difficulty with the wolves. Everytime I'd come across them, I'd get anxiety and attacked, die, respawn, and when I'd go to get my inventory, I'd be shaking so bad I couldnt even use the mouse to gather it. The boar's were easy, the bears made me afraid a bit, but the wolves we're having me panic.

She asked, why do you think the wolves have you panic? The most generic, easy response, right? I shrugged it off and said probably my trauma (I have diagnosed c-ptsd). Meeting ended.

But for three days, I couldn't get the question out of my head. Why were the wolves freaking me out so badly? I wanted to defeat the wolves. Then I remembered, 14 years ago I was bit by a dog. Aggressively. He lunged for my neck, I blocked him with my arm where he snagged me. Another person put the dog in a head lock so he couldn't shake his head, the dog didn't let go until I, well, instinct kicked in I guess and I played dead, I exhaled and went limp. He let go, I went to the hospital and was lucky, he nearly missed my tendon. I had forgotten... I know.. I know, but it all made sense. The next time I came aross the wolves, I didnt lose my inventory.

So simple, so effective. You must find the right therapist and sometimes it's difficult.

[–] Gongin@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

Depends on the type of therapist approach. If it's the type that is about CBT and thinking you need to change it won't work just like it doesn't work on neurodivergents. If it's internal family systems or ACT it can absolutely help because it acknowledges those issues and validates what's happening without trying to change you. You learn skills to accept it and ride it out vs suppressing and forcing change.

[–] TeraByteMarx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What if the dead plants are the friends we made along the way.

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