Tbf Jesus didn't start this shit.
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So there is that story in Genesis where the sons of Jacob have an army of 318 men circumcised so they could follow their religion.
Just think they probably put then into a pile, a small little mountain of foreskins.
They made them into some wallets
It's fucking crazy bro my parents were believers but weren't actually subscribed to any traditional religion and them mfers still trimmed my shit
Yeah you've got to wonder if that extra bit they trimmed off would be nicer to have there or not. But I guess the mutilated pecker is all I'll ever know so I guess its fine?
Blame Kellogg
And ultimately Christian sexual repression
Circumcision is not a Christian practice.
It's popular in America because some 19^th^ Century RFK jr style health freaks convinced everybody that masturbation caused disease.
Fun fact: Adventists (Kellogg's religion) run the second largest system of Christian schools, behind the Catholics. It definitely won't leave you weird and sexually repressed for the rest of your life.
Genital mutilation for all your babies! Use myths and lies to explain why it’s necessary!
You mean to tell me it's not physically impossible to clean the dick if the foreskin isn't cut off? My whole uncircumcised life has been a lie!
I can understand desert people coming up with some excuse to preform the operation because sand is coarse and rough and irritating… and it gets everywhere.
But it’s just nicer to think they wanted their kids to have the most attractive cocks in the village
Actually there was a huge debate among early Christians whether circumcision was still required because Jesus never spoke on the issue (or if he did, there was no verifiable record of it).
To crudely summarize:
The earliest Christians were primarily Jews, so they were already circumcized as required by Judaism so it was a non-issue. However unlike Judaism where you're almost always born into the religion, Christianity actively encourages adult conversion, so as more non-Jews (e.g. Greeks) began to identify as Christians, the circumcision issue became a conundrum. Some felt Christianity was a branch of Judaism and as such Jewish practices like circumcision were still required, whereas others objected because they saw Christianity as a new approach to Judaism, or even as a separate religion altogether (circumcision specifically was hotly debated due to such issues as adult circumcision being more, shall we say, unappealing than infant circumcision, plus getting circumcized would "out" non-Jews in nude spaces like bath houses, which was at best awkward and at worst deadly).
The earliest followers of Jesus thought Jesus was going to return in their lifetimes, so these types of issues were not discussed (or at least not resolved) by the original founders and proselytizers (researchers have determined the Gospels weren't even composed until well after everyone involved was dead), but as generations passed it became clear that the Second Coming actually may not happen anytime soon, so practical issues of "how to establish a new religion (is it even a new religion or just a Jewish sect???)" turned into gigantic internal debates for the community. That's what much of the New Testament is: letters back and forth trying to interpret the words of Jesus to resolve doctrinal conflict. In other words, the New Testament is basically four different versions of the story of Jesus (Mark, Matthew and Luke which were based on Mark and a lost "Gospel X", and John), followed by a curated back-and-forth commentary section debating issues of the day such as circumcision and women's role in the church, and controversially capped off by the (theorized) hallucinations of a hermit tripping balls off donated moldy bread.
The history of the New Testament (how it was written and later compiled, early texts that were lost or discarded, and all the doctrinal conflicts that boiled over into variously incidents of geopolitical chaos) is fascinating and seriously worth exploring.
That's fascinating. Can you recommend any books on the subject? The easier to read the better!
I don't know if I'd call it "easy" reading, but this is a well-regarded college textbook that's popular in "Christianity 101" religion classes (so at least it's entry-level and doesn't assume prior knowledge on the topic):
For something much lighter, Extra Credits did a video series on early Christian schisms that mentions the circumcision debate:
I'm far from a religious scholar (just someone who enjoys history from time to time), so I'd be curious if other folks have additional recommendations.
Wrong dude. That was Abraham in Genesis.
If Jesus is God and God told Abraham then i guess it's technically the right dude.
only jesus said there is a new covenant with him, which nearly all denominations interpret to mean the rite of circumcision is a thing of the past
... Unless you're in Protestant dominated USAmerica, where male genital mutilation remains a widespread, common practice.
Roughly 80% of American boys/men are circumcized, almost all at birth.
I can provide either statistics or pics as proof, your choice.
EDIT: There's also a whole history of basically junk/fraudulent science in the US being used as a validation of this practice, much of which basically claims that having your whole hood intact makes you more vulnerable to skin infections and STDs.
This is false, but Americans are quite good at doing motivated reasoning and convincing themselves it is objective critical analysis.
no i know. i'm part of that statistic. my parents weren't consulted ahead of time. it was simply done "for health reasons"
But that's not religious. It's an american thing.
It is an American thing that arose from, and persists because of how Americans 'do' Christianity.
As I said in another post, start with Max Weber, and then explore more of the history of how Christianity and Christian Denominations, cults, sects, revival movements, etc, have shaped the country as a whole, in ways that are distinct from how other kinds of Christianity have shaped other countries in the last 300 or so years.
Like... the whole reason we have the First Amendment, the freedom of religion part... was mainly to make it so that none of the varying Christian Denominations would be able to use the government to censor or outright oppress or murder each other.
Read the journals of the founding fathers, federalist papers, etc, if you doubt that. See how most of them were Deists, who... just believed in a big creator God, but basically no theology of any particular Christian branch... the neutral middle ground.
America was largely initially founded by populations of varying kinds of extreme Christian Sects fleeing persecution in Europe... and a lot of our early history is... those sects persecuting and mistreating, or at best, barely tolerating and competetively trying to proselytize, other sects that just over here now, on a different continent... as well as all the indigenous populations... and the imported slaves.
Found some really nuts messianic Christian family on Facebook, and the mom just gives birth on the back of the skoolie they live in without any medical care, thankfully they only have one son but the father circumcised him with a razor by himself on the bus, and mom thinks that is a swell idea and wrote up a manual about it for her website. They drive around putting up religious signs and begging donations off their fellow believers to live on, and I want to call CPS so badly but I don't know how to find them. It's SO much worse than that too.
Egads, that poor child is probably going to have significant scarring around the cuts. Assuming he didn't get a massive infection that they didn't bother to get treated until amputation was necessary.
Jesus was in fact the one to say "yeah all this old rules don't matter, just focus on these two: don't be a dick and don't be a fucking dick, god damn"
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17
Matthew, particularly, was so obsessed with this idea that he even made up new scriptures that didn't exist and said Jesus fulfilled them.
And that is why they crucified him, The Old Testament Repeatedly says "Be a dick against gays, infidels and non-virgin women who are not your wife. And whoever comes to say otherwise, be the most absolute dick against him".
"We're going to cut off (part of) your Johnson!"
Fucking Nazarenes. Nothing changes.
I got the meme but this is Jesus. He was himself circuncised since he was jewish. It was alredy a thing before him. oh, and christians don't do that
Circumcision of children should be highly illegal. Any health practitioner doing the procedure should be criminally liable for assault and malpractice.
Don't eat pork, don't eat shell fish, don't work on Sundays (or Saturdays depending on who you talk to), no sex before marriage, don't masturbate ...... but you can bend the rules and get close to doing those things and even get away with breaking the rule because God is an idiot that can easily be outwitted or deceived with human logic.
And this is just a small list of rules and regulations .... there's a whole list of things that are not allowed in the bible but Christian leaders have made workarounds on everything because they are smarter than God.
Casual reminder that many religious rules were just basic Hygiene practices from prehistoric times which were later absorbed into the local beliefs.
The whole “hygiene” and circumcision is a myth and a lie. Your foreskin has no bearing on your ability to wash your dick
The whole “hygiene” and circumcision is a myth and a lie.
It's not like there microbiology science existed thousands of years ago. It may have been a hygiene practice because people thought it was helpful. Bloodletting is BS as well and people thought it helped drain the body's poisons.
Bloodletting is therapeutic... for some very specific conditions. For example, hemochromatosis, where the body has too much iron, and there has been some preliminary study that blood donations are a way to reduce the amount of PFAS in blood.
But everyone has PFAS in their blood; not every male has (beyond normal) phimosis.
Your foreskin has no bearing on your ability to wash your dick
I imagine the whole circumcision thing makes sense when you're wandering the desert for years and there's not a whole lot of water around, but other than that, yeah.
It does if it's tight. I couldn't wash it due to the extreme tightness. I don't agree with doing it for religious reasons, just saying your argument there is not without holes.
Not so long ago people would go weeks without washing their bodies, let alone in prehistoric times.
You can tell when a tradition was set in by the hidden undertone it allowed to play for it. "Time for your circumcision... Whoops! Guess you are my eunuch surrogate now, totally didn't mean to eliminate the competition / your genes from my gene pool of surrogates!" Yeah, probably looking too much into it, it's not like it's a practice associated with a culture heavily associated with a god's chosen master race ideology or anything. Totes just a coincidence that it was fabulously sported by the slave loving Egyptians and cultures famous for their obsession with slave land owners of the times as a "rite of passage". ^/actualshitcomment^