this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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[–] subignition@fedia.io 159 points 10 months ago (14 children)
  1. I don't intend to victim blame or defend any abusers here; this shit is vile and should not be tolerated, period.

  2. From the below, it sounds like it was determined that, despite Omegle's moderation efforts, Omegle could have done better in areas relating to age verification and matchmaking. So I'm not trying to defend or minimize Omegle's role either, I don't know the details of how the site worked but it sounds like this was a problem for a long time:

the judge in A.M.’s case found last July that Omegle’s design was at fault and it was not protected by Section 230: It could have worked to prevent matches between minors and adults before sexual content was even sent, the judge said.

  1. However, I really don't like the choice of phrasing "forced", and I wonder whether that's poor paraphrasing or actually taken from the lawsuit.

Her lawsuit, filed in 2021, alleged that she met a man in his thirties on Omegle who forced her to take naked photos and videos over a three-year period. She was just 11 when it began in 2014.

Again, to be clear, not trying to say that the victim should, or even could, have done anything differently. Victim blaming is bad. But how the hell are they saying "forced" to do something by some scumbag over the internet? What kind of conditions does a kid have to be in at home to feel like they can't turn to their parent/guardian for help in a terrifying situation like that? How is an 11-year-old in 2014 being allowed to get into that situation in the first place, between her parents and her school?

It seems like this victim was failed by every support system she should have been able to rely on. This is so messed up. This is exactly why we need things like sex education and Internet safety education.

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 70 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is a failure of parenting. WTF is an 11 year old doing on Omegle?

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 85 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (33 children)

It just isn’t that simple. I’ve got four kids. At least one of them ended up watching a naked man on Omegle once. And I say this because they were in a group of friends and dared each other on, on a school trip, and they were discovered (one of them felt pretty shocked and told a teacher) and we had a big discussion with her.

Kids do dumb shit all the time. Omegle is (was) very much known about amongst them all.

So, even with careful parenting and a locked down internet, and policies not to have phones upstairs in your room, kids do dumb shit or find a new service that isn’t in your filter, because they’ve heard about it through their friends. I know because my wife and I carefully raise four kids and the internet is a fucking onslaught to a dopamine dependent, approval seeking teenager.

I’m not saying “it’s all Omegle’s fault”. Everyone had a role to play. But let’s not pretend Omegle was blameless.

[–] vermyndax@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You can parent your children all day long and everything is just fine at home. As soon as your kids are unleashed into the world of school, it's anything goes. Your child is immediately subjected to all the poor and awful parenting that is outside your control. The only thing you can do is give them skills to navigate those situations. Sounds like @sunbeam60@lemmy.one did just that. Bravo.

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[–] Jamie@jamie.moe 44 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But how the hell are they saying “forced” to do something by some scumbag over the internet?

There was a group from Brazil doing stuff like that and got publicized when they were arrested recently. Usually they'd coerce the minor into sending one picture, then use it as blackmail against them to give them more. They might even gaslight them to convince them that they'll get in big trouble if they tell anyone and it'll just get worse for them.

I've seen full fledged adults taken hard by scammers and willingly giving them thousands of dollars against their own interests, and they heavily distrust and resist anyone trying to help them. I can only imagine accomplishing that with a child that lacks long term thinking skills is even more effective.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago

Literally a black mirror episode

[–] adrian783@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

children are incredibly easy to influence. "if you don't do it I will find where you live and harm your family, and do not call the cops/tell your parents" is often enough threat.

[–] phx@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

The common thing I've seen in more well -knowncases was the abuser striking up a relationship and pretending to be somebody younger, getting compromising details/photos from the victim, then threatening to release those to family/friends unless the victim follows their wishes (which often providing further sexual images/acts).

Not sure if that might be the case with a service like Omegle, but it was essentially what happened in the Amanda Todd case and other similar cases.

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[–] ZzyzxRoad@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

God, this entire comment section is nothing but

"I'm not victim blaming, but..."

"personal responsibility"

"parents should be doing blah blah blah....no, I don't have kids."

The best parents in the world still can't control what their kids are doing every second of every day. Kids will always find ways around every single thing that's meant to restrict what they can do, see, or hear. I'm sure you never did stuff you weren't supposed to when you were a kid...right?

[–] Rediphile@lemmy.ca 16 points 10 months ago

Yeah, and we could shut down the Internet all together... or we could be realistic about prevention.

And yes, I accessed lots of 'sensitive' material online as a kid well before this website existed. So I find it hard to blame this specific website...websites come and go. I do however absolutely blame the creep himself since they are the one who did something wrong. Not the website.

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[–] flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 91 points 10 months ago (5 children)

When do the alcoholics get to sue the bars/pubs for "forcing" them to walk through the door and order a drink?

Another good thing falls to the whims of lack of personal responsibility, parenting, and Helen (won't someone think of the children?!) Lovejoy syndrome. Now the predators will just continue to do there thing in a darker hole that is even harder to find.

[–] FaeDrifter@midwest.social 41 points 10 months ago (2 children)

If a bar is consistently serving alcohol to minors, it deserves consequences.

[–] DiatomeceousGirth@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

Yeah there's literally laws against it lol. The op analogy sucks.

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 10 months ago

A bar can reliably verify the customer's age, a website can't do that.

The internet is not a safe space for children. It's absolutely the parents' responsibility to monitor their children's internet consumption.

[–] the_sisko@startrek.website 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm confused, are you saying that it was the 11 year old girl's personal responsibility to avoid being the victim of sexual abuse? Or are you saying that it was her parents' responsibility to be monitoring her technology use 24/7?

Neither seems right to me...

Now the predators will just continue to do there thing in a darker hole that is even harder to find.

If it's harder to find, then fewer children stumble upon it and get preyed upon, which is a good thing.

[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 22 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Or are you saying that it was her parents' responsibility to be monitoring her technology use 24/7?

Dunno about parent commenter, but that is exactly what I am saying. The parent is responsible for the minor child's safety. That would include not giving her unmonitored unrestricted internet access until she reaches an age when she can safely use it. That is literally what parental controls are there for.

To make an analogy- The kid here was playing in the street and got hit by a drunk driver. The solution to that isn't to put Ford out of business for making the truck, or to put fences on every sidewalk. The solution is throw the drunk driver in jail and remind parents not to let their kids play in the street.

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[–] flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

My point is that the safety of that 11 year old is no more Omegles responsibility than it is a bar’s responsibility to prevent the drunk from drinking.

If the answer to children getting into things that they shouldn’t is not allowing those things to exist then that is not a workable or desirable solution in the long term.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

If a drunk driver kills someone then the place who served them is sued

That darker hole is discord though, I wrote to them begging them to shut down their public server/community finder

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

If a drunk driver kills someone then the place who served them is sued

Personally I think this is crazy, and totally without merit.

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[–] Kissaki@feddit.de 71 points 10 months ago (1 children)

In 2022, there were 608,601 reports of child exploitation on Omegle to the nonprofit National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s CyberTipline. Of all the sites the center tracked, only Facebook, Google, Instagram, and WhatsApp ranked higher.

That's a crazy high number. Especially for a live content platform which I assume can only ever have individual reports of live interactions?

[–] Sabakodgo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 52 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Parents fault, not the site.

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[–] Orbituary@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)

I have a fundamental question about this case: was he there physically with her? Coercion is one thing, but the word "force" implies he was somehow in control. I am in no way defending him, but it reeks terribly of the "look what you made me do" vibe and I feel somewhat uneasy about how this played out.

Omegle was a piece of the internet I never partook in. It never appealed to me to talk with random internet people. Perhaps I don't understand why he had power over her.

Edit: thanks, I everyone. I get it from a subjective position.

[–] die444die@lemmy.world 74 points 10 months ago

Her lawsuit, filed in 2021, alleged that she met a man in his thirties on Omegle who forced her to take naked photos and videos over a three-year period. She was just 11 when it began in 2014.

Not all methods of force are physical. This was an adult talking to an 11 year old. 11 year olds have in many cases not had enough life experience to understand that there are adults that will manipulate them in this way. It’s possible he got her to do things and then blackmailed her for more. Regardless of how he did it, he was an adult and she was an 11 year old child. Not acceptable no matter the circumstance.

[–] johanbcn@iusearchlinux.fyi 34 points 10 months ago (11 children)

Perhaps I don't understand why he had power over her.

One can have leverage over another person by threatening to harm oneself or someone else.

There's been many cases in omegle of people threatening "show me your boobs or I'll kill this pet". If the victim complies, the agressor may continue through blackmailing.

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[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

He somehow got her to get started and then threatened her, saying that she was now complicit in making illegal porn and would get in trouble.

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[–] InfiniWheel@lemmy.one 20 points 10 months ago

I'm honestly surprised it took this long

[–] dr_scientist@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago
[–] Kissaki@feddit.de 8 points 10 months ago

Autoplaying unrelated videos. Shit wasteful website.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm really confused am I supposed to have heard of this website apparently everybody haves been using it for over a decade and I feel like I'm from a parallel universe. What the hell is this website?

[–] kadu@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Omegle was super popular worldwide, it's one of the "first generation" internet social platforms, back from the age when people got really impressed by the possibilities of the web.

Basically, Omegle is a platform where you chat with random people using your webcam. It's like a Google Meet or Skype call, but the website randomly assigns you to somebody else, and you can choose to skip and move on to the next person as soon as you wish.

So you can be browsing and suddenly you're talking to a Brazilian guitar player, and then a maths professor, and then two shy teenagers screaming, and then a dude in a Star Wars costume, and so on.

As you might imagine upon hearing the phrase "random people with their webcams turned on" Omegle was a place filled, and I do mean filled, with naked people. Mostly men. The conversations would start with the camera turned on by default, meaning you'd be flashed with a dick before even being able to react.

It's also infamous for a lot of child porn.

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