this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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The revived No JS Club celebrates websites that don't use Javascript, the powerful but sometimes overused code that's been bloating the web and crashing tabs since 1995. The No CSS Club goes a step further and forbids even a scrap of styling beyond the browser defaults. And there is even the No HTML Club, where you're not even allowed to use HTML. Plain text websites!

The modern web is the pure incarnation of evil. When Satan has a 1v1 with his manager, he confers with the modern web. If Satan is Sauron, then the modern web is Melkor [1]. Every horror that you can imagine is because of the modern web. Modern web is not an existential risk (X-risk), but is an astronomic suffering risk (S-risk) [2]. It is the duty of each and every man, woman, and child to revolt against it. If you're not working on returning civilization to ooga-booga, you're a bad person.

A compromise with the clubs is called for. A hypertext brutalism that uses the raw materials of the web to functional, honest ends while allowing web technologies to support clarity, legibility and accessibility. Compare this notion to the web brutalism of recent times, which started off in similar vein but soon became a self-subverting aesthetic: sites using 2.4MB frameworks to add text-shadow: 40px 40px 0px hotpink to 400kb Helvetica webfonts that were already on your computer.

I also like the idea of implementing "hypotext" as an inversion of hypertext. This would somehow avoid the failure modes of extending the structure of text by failing in other ways that are more fun. But I'm in two minds about whether that would be just a toy (e.g. references banished to metadata, i.e. footnotes are the hypertext) or something more conceptual that uses references to collapse the structure of text rather than extend it (e.g. links are includes and going near them spaghettifies your brain). The term is already in use in a structuralist sense, which is to say there are 2 million words of French I have to read first if I want to get away with any of this.

Republished Under Creative Commons Terms. Boing Boing Original Article.

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[–] oakward@feddit.org 7 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

You are using ASCII? Weak. True website surfers use raw character values, like The Matrix in 1999.

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[–] umbraroze@slrpnk.net 52 points 16 hours ago (4 children)

"No HTML club" is kinda going too far on the Web. If you go there you might as well start a No HTTP Club and serve stuff over Gopher and FTP.

But we definitely need an HTML 2.0 Club.

[–] ChuckTheMonkey@fedia.io 18 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Might as well do no digital club and we exchange information through mail and pigeons.

[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Too much information.
Back to smoke signals.

Wait. You know what? Back to monke!

[–] whaleross@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

It was a mistake to leave the oceans in the first place.

in my next life, i'm gonna be an insect critter hopping in the grassy meadows i guess

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I recently made www.timedial.org, using mainly HTML 3.2. I tried HTML 2.0, but the lack of tables, fonts and even text alignment was a bit too much.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

HTML 2.0 doesn't have tables, and tables are not so bad, even org-mode has tables.

Since HTML 4.01 was a thing when I first saw a website:

Being able to have buttons is good. Buttons with pictures too.

And, unlike some people, I liked the idea of framesets. A simple enough websites could have an IRC-like chat frame to the left and the main navigable area to the right.

And the unholy amount of specific tags is the other side of the coin for not yet using JS and CSS for everything.

I think an "RHTML" standard as a continuation and maybe simplification of HTML 4.01 (no JS, no CSS, do dynamic things in applets, without Netscape plugins do applets with some new kind of plugins running in a specialized sandboxed VM with JIT) could be useful. Other than this there's no need in any change at all. It's perfect. It has all the necessary things for hypertext.

[–] yeah@feddit.uk 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)
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[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 21 points 15 hours ago

Pfff, that's nothing. My club doesn't even have a website.

[–] CriticalMiss@lemmy.world 35 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I can get behind no JS club, I can’t get behind no CSS club.

CSS is 🆒

[–] chunes@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

A subset of css is cool, but man does it go too far.

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[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

No HTML should rather do all-Commonmark instead, imo. Background color and text width & stuff should not be your (the creators) business but my (the users) business only. But some basic styling is nice.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

i guess Commonmark is the same thing as Markdown?

in that case, this is why i love the fediverse (especially lemmy) so much: comments and posts are simple markdown.

it comes quite close to the principle of distributing content in the way of markdown articles.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 13 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

How do you use hyperlinks without HTML?

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 27 points 16 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Banthex@feddit.org 23 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Jesus. This is getting out of hand.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 6 points 13 hours ago

Forces one to avoid deep links and parameter crap. I'm sorta two minds about this.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 7 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (2 children)

We can go further. We could take away your fancy "URL"s and just use IP addresses for navigation.

Heck, we could do away with TCP/IP altogether and network over serial. It's a perfectly functional protocol with several baud rates to choose from. I like ol' reliable 9600, but I sometimes dabble in 115200 when I'm feeling adventurous.

[–] raldone01@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (3 children)

Back in school my friends all flashed their mcus with 4-8MB images over serial with 115200 baud. I set up ota updates over wifi. They were all fascinated by my speedy flashes. However when I offered to help them set it up, not one was interested because their setup was working as is and slow flashing is not a "bad" thing since it gave them an excuse to do other things.

We are talking minutes vs seconds here.

The teachers were surprised by my quick progress and iterations. When I told them my "trick" the gave me bonus points but also were not interested in learning how to do ota which was very easy. A simple 20 minute first time setup would have saved sooo much time during the year.

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[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 175 points 1 day ago (1 children)

JavaScript, AJAX, and modern web frameworks have pushed us away from displaying information in a pure and clean way. We need to go back to a better time!

Looks at no-HTML websites

Shit, we've gone back too far!

[–] b_tr3e@feddit.org 77 points 1 day ago (32 children)

CSS on the other hand is quite essential to separate layout from content. Which is a good thing, so I can't really think of a reason for a "no-CSS" rule. Specifically if you can use inline styles as well but in a way more messy way.

[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 4 points 14 hours ago

I think the idea is that you keep the layout as simple as possible such that you don't need any code for it, css or otherwise.

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[–] Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world 40 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

Just earlier I was reading about this website hosted on solar power and the extremes they went through to get the website to be simple so very little data is transmitted to save precious watts.

The website https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/about/the-solar-website/

it also matters because the complexity of websites is a burden to end-user devices. especially on weak smartphones, as i'm using rn, the power usage of heavy websites sucks a lot, as it considerably slows down the device overall.

[–] tehn00bi@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

Looks like the geocities websites of my youth.

[–] RvTV95XBeo@sh.itjust.works 8 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

This is genuinely inspiring to me, may be my new ADHD hobby for the next couple of weeks.

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[–] Scrappy@feddit.nl 2 points 12 hours ago

Plug for my astro plugin which dithers images and achieves the same look and feel as the linked website: https://www.npmjs.com/package/@bashbers/astro-image-dithering

[–] Absaroka@lemmy.world 56 points 1 day ago (13 children)

I do wonder if we're going to see some websites popping up that kind of hit the reset button on social media and go back to smaller communities of folks with something in common.

I kind of miss the days of actually having online conversations with folks you know are real people (not bots), that aren't trying to be an influencer, or get famous, or some how many money off your interactions.

[–] blah3166@piefed.social 9 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Check out the gemini protocol: https://geminiprotocol.net/

It kinda fills that niche of the "old web".

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

The main downside is that you need a specific browser, or an extension for your average browser, to load gemini sites.

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[–] icedcoffee@lemm.ee 7 points 17 hours ago

This fucken rules

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 47 points 1 day ago (1 children)
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