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578

Luigi Mangione hearing tests legality of evidence in healthcare CEO murder case (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

104 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Alleged gunman faces nine charges including second-degree murder in New York state case

Luigi Mangione is due to appear in Manhattan state court on Monday for the first day of a potentially weeklong proceeding to weigh the legality of evidence gathered during his arrest after the killing of a prominent healthcare executive.

Mangione was apprehended last December in the murder of senior United HealthCare figure Brian Thompson last December. In addition to state-level charges, he faces a Manhattan federal court case.

Thompson’s brutal slaying on the streets of New York city triggered an intense manhunt for the killer, but also sparked an outpouring of anger at the practices of the US for-profit healthcare industry. Since his arrest Mangione has attracted some enthusiastic supporters, both online and at his court appearances.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 151 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

Mangione’s legal team has repeatedly pushed for the exclusion of evidence gathered during his arrest at an Altoona, Pennsylvania, McDonald’s restaurant on 9 December 2024. They have claimed that police, who came to the fast-food eatery based on an anonymous tip, did not immediately apprise Mangione of his constitutional rights.

Mangione’s lawyers have argued that because he was not apprised of his rights, his statements to police should not be permitted in court. They also argue that evidence taken during his arrest should be barred, saying they conducted a “warrantless search” of Mangione’s backpack.

This is the crux of the issue.

Ever since the start I've been saying he was a suspect and they were tracking him based off of illegally obtained evidence. The whole tip was BS. Some random person (most likely cop or fed) told a fast food worker there was a reward and to call it in, then just left.

They needed an excuse to say they found a suspect, because they found him illegally. It's actually standard procedure called "parallel investigation".

But even if the call holds up, they fucked up all the evidence gathering.

I really think he'll get off on a technicality and trump will try to jail him anyways keep the wealthy happy

[–] grue@lemmy.world 45 points 3 weeks ago

It's actually standard procedure called "parallel investigation".

The usual jargon is "parallel construction," in case somebody wants to look it up.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 38 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

The way I see this going is

Mangione wins his initial case on the issues you highlight.

Theres a big legal slapfight.

Ends up in front of the supreme court.

Trump makes a public statement about how dangerous people like Mangione need to be found guilty and executed.

Shortly after the statement, the Supreme Court abruptly declares Mangione guilty.

Trump holds a public execution within a month. Possibly profiting off it by selling tickets to his billionaire backers.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 32 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

SCOTUS doesn't (normally) rule on guilt, they rule on the legal questions raised in the appeal, and send cases back down to be finished.

[–] makeshiftreaper@lemmy.world 36 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

(normally)

Doing a lot of heavy lifting there

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

cause SCOTUS has been so normal the past 10 months, amirite

also i think he missed the whole "Trump publicly says he needs to be guilty, and SCOTUS immediately declares guilty" aspect

[–] mcv@lemmy.zip 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Can the Supreme Court overrule a jury? Doesn't he have a right to a jury trial? Can Mangione be convicted if no jury is willing to do it?

Not that constitutional rights have ever stopped Trump.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago

If theres no one willing to follow the law, then nothing can be held accountable.

as you see with the trump admin. Does whatever it wants, with almost impunity, because they have corrupted the entire system to get rid of all checks and balances.

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[–] etchinghillside@reddthat.com 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

because they found him illegally

Remind me again on what illegal method(s) were suspected to be used?

[–] mkwt@lemmy.world 56 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think GP is alleging that the feds used NSA spy shit to locate Mr. Mangione at the Pennsylvania McDonalds through his burner phone.

But... It is a violation of federal law to spy on an American like that. So the feds have not admitted to that. Instead, they manufactured an anonymous tip, based on legally obtained surveillance video from New York, in order to have a legal reasonable suspicion to question Mr. Mangione.

And then the local cops who responded fucked it up anyway by blocking his path of retreat, which is a functional arrest, and then not Mirandizing. And they also searched the backpack before they had any probable cause to do so, and after they had removed it safely away from Mr. Mangione. Without PC, the cops may search the backpack or Mangione for weapons only (the infamous stop and frisk), but they cannot search the backpack insides if they have removed it away from Mangione. The backpack is no longer a threat at that point

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 34 points 3 weeks ago

NYC is covered with cell snoopers....

Very very accurate snoopers, if he had a cell phone they'd have done that quickly without a warrant. And once they had his number from that, they could track him anywhere.

It's also one of the highest camera densities in the world, if there wasn't a phone then they likely tapped into every camera and ran facial recognition, again without a warrant.

But that's just the stuff we know about. A CEO was shot on the street, that's too close for the oligarchs so I wouldn't be surprised if they got the government to use the top secret shit that's supposed to just be for terrorists. Stuff we couldn't even think of, but might hear about a decade from now once it's no longer state of the art.

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[–] shittydwarf@piefed.social 119 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Cops were so thirsty for a conviction they completely broke the chain of custody on their "evidence". The whole thing should be thrown out

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[–] oh_@lemmy.world 95 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

My man is innocent. Was not even there.

[–] Madrigal@lemmy.world 60 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Doesn't look remotely like the guy in that original mugshot they were flashing around.

[–] ObtuseDoorFrame@lemmy.zip 32 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Right? This has bothered me from the beginning. He's not the guy in the footage who shoots Thompson, and it's obvious. But they need someone to take the fall as an example, to protect the rich.

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[–] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 47 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Luigi was with me the whole time.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 43 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

You're a liar.

He was balls deep in my wife at the time this supposed murder took place.

[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 25 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Sounds like ThePyroPython is your wife

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[–] tenchiken@anarchist.nexus 14 points 3 weeks ago

Confirmed. I saw you watching them bone down while I was peeking through the window. Looked pretty fun, not gonna lie.

Nice house btw, and hot wife. You should be proud.

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Lucky woman.

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[–] thesohoriots@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Luigi is actually Sam Reich.

“I’ve been here the whole time.”

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[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 86 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

Thompson’s brutal slaying on the streets of New York city

Gtfo

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 47 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Yeah, it was as brutal as any other shooting. Do cops shooting kids ever get described as "brutal"?

It's not like he was beaten to death with a tire iron, or denied treatment and left to a slow and agonizing death that also leaves your family in ruins.

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

If you think about it, Luigi had far more compassion than the man he killed. Pretty quick and painless; compared to the outcomes of our healthcare system.

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[–] NoTagBacks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

This BRUTAL ASSASSINATION of a poor little innocent ceo who definitely didn't profit on the corpses of thousands of people who were denied healthcare specifically because of his own intentional policies. This precious baby ceo was MORDERED in COLD BLOOD by this bloodthirsty ~~mass~~ murdering ~~immigrant~~ ~~minority~~ who hated him because FREEDOM and the BRAVE and BOLD decision of the ceo to allow poor people to be able to CHOOSE to die via paperwork ~~as a weapon~~. Surely this ceo who's name we can't find for some reason is smiling down on his beloved healthcare industry from the heaven that definitely exists. We hope the ultra powerful and scary ~~mass~~ murderer Luigi Mangione gets the JUSTICE the people of this country are clamoring for.

[–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You forgot to pull the husband and father card. 8/10, really gotta hammer that orphan angle home next time.

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 24 points 3 weeks ago

It was just a corrective market force.

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[–] Gates9@sh.itjust.works 74 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

The slaying wasn’t that brutal

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 63 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

A clean, point blank shot to the head is just about as un-brutal as it gets, as far as non-consensual deaths go

[–] Hylactor@sopuli.xyz 25 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Consensual Death would be a good band name.

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[–] rainbowbunny@slrpnk.net 57 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

How are the court hearings going for the cops that murder family members?

[–] glitch1985@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago

Whathhearings?

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[–] Sasquatch@lemmy.ml 49 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In the women’s restroom, Mangione’s supporters chatted among themselves about this proceeding.

Truely top-tier journalism

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 28 points 3 weeks ago

That looks bad......if you take it completely out of context

The author just added some levity while writing about his widespread support

[...] One, who sported a satiny sash emblazoned with Luigi in green, appeared to commiserate with another supporter about not being permitted to wear the prom-queen evoking accessory.

Other accoutrements were more straightforward. One supporter wore a shirt stating: “11 minutes of missing body camera footage.”

[–] watson@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago

He’s so hot, OMG

The only crime here is that he is not my husband

[–] littlewonder@lemmy.world 24 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Y'all need to look at the McDonald's manager's 911 call. She says that several customers are coming up to her and telling her it's the guy from the shooting and then she goes on to describe him as wearing a medical mask and sunglasses, etc.

So some guy who is mostly covered up looks like a guy who is mostly covered up? Yeah right. And you're telling me a ton of customers recognized him? Wtf

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[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Free Luigi! Remember Remember the 4th of December. Jail the insurance CEO’s and Shareholders for mass murder!

[–] RalphFurley@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

Can someone help me understand? It honestly sounds like he really did it but very well could get off on a technicality which to me is fine. I've had so many loved ones kicked off health care during terminal diseases and I despise for-profit model of the industry.

But it really seems like he did it, yet I see so many people questioning that. I'm just curious why that is.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 39 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Basically it's people saying:

Prove it

Because the government cant/won't say how they are so sure it's him

Couple that with how the wealthy never face consequences in our justice system due to their ability to pay money to lawyers.

And the fact that people want this to be decided by the letter of the law isn't extreme by any means, it's literally the point of law. And why people are (rightfully) outraged that they're trying to include terrorism charges.

It's just the cops fucked up so much, they're not going to be able to legally prove anything.

It's OJ all over again

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[–] fonix232@fedia.io 29 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

People are questioning it because the initial CCTV pictures of the murderer do not match Mangione's features. They look similar enough for it to be pulled in as evidence - and further supported by the items confiscated from him during his arrest, but then again people are questioning the legitimacy of those things too - but the differences are visible enough for even a mid tier lawyer to argue that the CCTV recording is not of their client.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

He is just a fall guy because they were determined to punish someone for the crime of daring to fight back against the ruling class. Just the claim that he was found with the murder weapon and a manifesto proving motive is enough to conclude that.

Even the most insane of murderers don't carry around everything needed for conviction while out for lunch days later.

[–] mkwt@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago

sounds like he really did it but very well could get off on a technicality

This is a suppression motion for unlawful search and seizure. To call this man's 4th amendment rights a "technicality" is some Law and Order copaganda bullshit.

These suppression motions are already very difficult to win. Mr. Mangione will have to show not only that his rights were violated, but also that the cops would not have found the evidence through a different, legal means. So if he does win, it will not be "on a technicality." It's just the system ensuring that everyone's constitutional rights are respected.

[–] Carmakazi@piefed.social 16 points 3 weeks ago

In addition to some alleged incongruity of the evidence, I think a lot of people actually think he did it but they want him to get away with it/don't think what he did was wrong, and throwing mud in the water is a way to show support for him, albeit a somewhat disingenuous one.

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[–] switcheroo@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

Self defense. Actually self defense plus defending his fellows. I see no crime in this. Luigi is innocent!

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[–] Scolding7300@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Pretty sure his hearing is fine, not syre why he needs hearing tests

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