Complacent middle class here. I would gladly get taxed more if that meant improved health and education and welfare. Not super keen on keeping up the subsidies of oil and gas, and of spending 5% of GDP on American weapons. And yes, we need a wealth tax.
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What we need is class solidarity. It isnt your fault rich jack asses are hoarding wealth, the middle class is the intermediary of power and they keep you happy for a reason.
I was being cheeky with the "complacent" bit. Of course we need class solidarity. The reason I went out the way to self identity is because I am finally one of those fucks that I've always been told the system works for, a respectable taxpayer. And as a respectable taxpayer I demand high taxes and a welfare state.
The problem is the velocity of money; by raising taxes on the wealthy and giving it to the poor they increase inflation and thereby interest rates; which interferes with the housing bubble, which they say is boomers nest eggs, and is thereby important to maintain and grow.
Its a problem with a bubble economy built on cheap debt and ever lower interest rates, you lose the ability to direct your own money supply. Look at owner-occupied housing's contribution to annual GDP growth, this bubble was fueling most of our economic growth.
Let's tax wealth to fund quality universal basic services first. Healthcare, childcare, education, transportation, social security, elder care. Social non-market housing, public utilities for electricity, water, telecommunications/Internet. None of these are increasing inflation, because they are not part of the market.
The idea of "nest egg" is only important as a privatised form of elder care. I couldn't care less about the value of my house if I had a publicly guaranteed quality of life as a pensioner. I wouldn't even care to own a house if I had strong renter protections in non-market housing (basically if renting was not equivalent to someone holding power over my life decisions).
And of course, of course, the capture of capital in unproductive real estate is beyond stupid. Instead of feeding a real estate bubble, it should be ingested in productive sectors of the economy, like building up renewables and the green transition.
A social democracy is just common sense.
Couldn't agree more, especially about the nest egg. I would love to see a better bedrock of care for all peoples.
A problem is investment is already very low in Canada, Carolyn Rogers already rang the alarm bells on productivity investment. So in some ways its not solved by high taxes, because productivity is what is causing the lack of growth according to the BoC.
My understanding (and I'm no economist) is that (a) some of the productivity metrics are weird, because they compare with the US which counts their idiotic for-profit healthcare sector in productivity, (b) part of the low investment is caused exactly because our capital is tied in real estate, and (c ) low investment is also a result of our god-damned oligopolies in so many key sectors of the economy. High taxes is not the only tool of course. What we need is a very aggressive policy against the wealthy. That can take the form of taxes, of improving social mobility via the welfare state, and of breaking up their cartels, i.e., their stranglehold on the economy.
They can't bring their money with them to hell
Their wealth needs to be seized and redistributed. They can still be obscenely wealthy, but they also need to forced in psychiatric programs since most of the uber wealthy families of the world have mental illness running through them.
I suggest reading up on the Mars family (the people who own Mars candy bars and other confectionery). The story of their OCD in doing anything at all for more money and market share was terrifying.
Hard agree. Hoarded wealth is a negative asset to the country and its economy.
According to the World Inequality Index, between 1999 and 2024, the top-1% in Canada grew their wealth from 26% to 29%.
In the same period in other countries, the top-1% changed their wealth:
- in Australia and New Zealand, more or less unchanged at around 23%
- in Europe, more or less unchanged around 25%
- in the USA, grew from 31% to 35%
- in China, grew from 19% to 30%
- in Russia, grew from 40% to 49%
- in Latin America, unchanged at around 36%
- Oceania, grew from 24% to 27%
- Sub-Saharan Africa, shrank from 38% to 34%
Worldwide, the top-1% share was stable at around 37%.
In the same period 1999-2024, the wealth of the bottom-50% in Canada slightly shrank from 15% to 14%. In other countries:
- in Australia and New Zealand, more or less unchanged at around 5%
- in Europe, more or less unchanged around 3%
- in the USA, grew from 0.6% to 1%
- in China, shrank from 14% to 6%
- in Russia, shrank from almost 7% to less than 3%
- in Latin America, unchanged at 2%
- Oceania, decreased from 3% to 2%
- Sub-Saharan Africa, slightly increased from below 2% to 2.1%
Worldwide, the bottom-50% grew their share of the total wealth slightly from 7% to 8%.
Source for the top 1%, here for the bottom 50%.
You can play around in the linked diagrams for other countries and regions.
Geez China. So much for lifting a billion out of poverty.
I mean, conditions have gotten better, but clearly there's gaps.
There is ample evidence that inequality is on the rise in China.
Yes, and you just posted it. Did you think I was arguing?
Lot of SIMPs for China around Lemmy even for a reasonable critique. Can be hard to tell sometimes
Yeah, that's definitely fair.
No, all fine. Sorry if my comment was misleading.
yah china lie about its numbers a lot, im beginning to wonder about its population count as well
They already did that, now capitalism evolves into its final form as fascism like it always does.
Canada's poor richest 1% nearly as poor as poorest 80% :((
To be fair, there arw many who could use some basic financial education around here.
That’s awful
Complacent middle class, or rapidly shrinking and struggling to not fall further middle class?
Land hoarding is the problem.
Yeah, the issue here isn't the middle class, it's as usual, the owner class that's the problem
The system is progressing as expected. The US is further ahead on the timeline. If they collapse first, that may trigger a systemic reset here, before we've reached their stage of fascist dystopia. Get your demands ready and demand more than people did during the 1930s. Much more.
19% would be the complacent middle class 🤮
Hot tip - that's most Lemmy users. I'm guessing there's also people in the top 0.9 kicking around.
Edit: Aaaand yup, there's cope in the comments.
Socialists are mostly the champaign kind now, although that doesn't make them wrong, neccesarily. Honestly, I have trouble picturing the old days when the kind of people I live around would have voted left.
What qualifies as "middle class" these days? Roughly 24% of Ontario public sector workers are on the sunshine list. While this doesn't give us a ton of insight into the private sector, this would still suggest that if we say the 19% is the middle class that to be middle class you have to be making more than $100k/year...
Not trying to argue, just trying to understand where the goalposts are.
Ever moving, right? People in the top 0.9% all call themselves middle class, maybe "upper middle class" to shut down any contradictions. That's because there's a stigma to being a rich fatcat. For more complicated reasons, politicians like to sweep up most of the bottom 50% that owns basically nothing, as well. The only people who consistently get stuck into the lower class are basically people so powerless they might as well be a thing.
That being said, do be careful that income distribution is quite different from wealth distribution.
Lemmy tends rich and educated. So it would be my guess more than 50% are in the top 19%. Probably by both, since it seems to tend older than Reddit did. What you call that is another matter entirely; wealth and income levels all flow together smoothly in the raw data.
The problem with the sunshine list is that it never changes with inflation. It's basically become a tool for morons to hate on the "overpaid" public sector instead of calling out their own underpaying employers.
Oh, absolutely. I'm just trying to use it as a marker to try to figure out where the goal posts should be for what we are calling "middle class."
I have a friend who works in central Ontario for a fortune 500 and they take home ~80k/year, and I've considered them and their family middle class for a while, but they also were telling me that they're overextended and struggling to keep up on interest payments...while also being denied a consolidation loan. So maybe they are not really middle class..?
Finally, the top 1 per cent hold almost a quarter of all wealth in Canada. A person in the top 1 per cent owns 210 times more wealth than an average person in the bottom 50 per cent.
By contrast, the bottom 40 per cent collectively hold slightly more than 3 per cent of total wealth in Canada, each with an average net worth of just under $87,000.