this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2026
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[–] Mavvik@lemmy.ca 18 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Im a Canadian geologist so I obviously dont have any personal stake in this but I do want to share my thoughts.

I think anti-mining sentiment is understandable in most places but not always justifiable. Lithium mining is absolutely required to transition from fossil fuels. Unless the number of cars on the road is greatly reduced, replacing them with BEVs will require significant amounts of lithium or improvements to Na ion batteries. There is not enough lithium available to get by just on recycling.

The question then becomes: where should this lithium come from? If it is not mined in western countries like USA or Canada, it will be mined by China or developing countries. In this comparison, who has better environmental regulations? Which countries have more human rights abuse?

If we decide that we can mine these deposits in the west, there is still a question about where they are mined. Do we extract lithium from basinal brines? My understanding is that these are generally more environmentally risky than extraction from pegmatites (the deposit type in New England).

The final question becomes, which communities will have to accept this mining? In Canada, most of the time it is indigenous communities that suffer most of the negative impacts of mining. There are many benefits to the communities too (usually), but the indigenous communities do not have nearly as much political sway as say rich cottage owners might, so their preferences and desires often get steamrolled by government in the name of "progress".

The unfortunate reality is that if we want to get rid of fossil fuels, we need to do a lot more mining and extraction or come up with some serious technological and societal innovation. In a globalized economy, saying that you dont want mining near your home means that you want some other people to deal with the potentially negative consequences of it. I am not saying that we need to allow all mining everywhere, but these are important ethical considerations that we have to make when talking about how we want society to progress.

Sorry for the rant.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

This is a beautiful description of why the obvious move here is "fewer cars, way better public transit."

[–] Mavvik@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 hour ago

Hard agree from me. Cars are such an inefficient use of resources its crazy. If I had it my way we would all get around by train, tram, or bike.

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 7 points 4 hours ago

Sorry for the rant.

Nuanced point is not a rant!

[–] chunes@lemmy.world 22 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Mining has always been allowed on national forest land, but it was heavily regulated and overseen. They recently changed the rules so that no permission is needed for mining operations on less than 5 acres. This will be an ecological disaster

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago

Yep, they are going to strip mine the Appalachians. And the sad thing is that the people in the Appalachians are going to welcome this. Because it means jobs in their minds.

[–] Upsidedownturtle@lemmy.world 14 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

What exactly is 328 years of anything? Are they saying we consume X tons, and we have found 328×X tons? Or is there some sort of future consumption estimations or trend lines accounted for? Is this all functionally available, or can we only access 20 years worth of it economically and banking on future extraction improvements? With thay large of a supply I would expect economic viability of further extraction would diminish over time.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 9 points 8 hours ago

My interpretation of the image is, "we consume x per year, we estimate there is 328x in the Appalachian area."

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago
[–] ChogChog@lemmy.world 30 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

I have a running joke I tell my friends that one day, the rich will flatten mountains, so the only way to see their natural wonder will be in VR. That’s when they will become mainstream. Not because they offer some new technological advancement, but because they’ve managed to capture the spaces we use to get away.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 9 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

They already take the tops off mountains in Appalachia because it's more efficient to just straight up delete a mountain to get coal than to dig into it for it

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 2 points 6 hours ago

this style of mining also requires fewer operators than a deep mine. it has had deeply devestating consequences to me and my neighbors

[–] pedz@lemmy.ca 4 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

There's a video clip of a song in French with a similar concept from 2003. A child is frolicking and playing in nature until we discover that it's all synthetic, her time is up, and other children are lining up for their time in "nature" too. Mickey 3D - Respire on YouTube.

From a description of the song on Wikipedia:

The text of the song addresses a "kid" to alert him about the state of the world that adults will leave to him. The first part of the song deals with the story of humans' arrival on Earth and their disturbance of the whole balance of nature. The second part imagines the future of people if they continue to do so (referring to the disappearance of natural resources, animals and even genetic modification because of pollution) and how the "kid" will try to explain to his grandchildren why he did nothing to prevent it. The third part speaks about the state of slavery, misery, and shame of the human species as well as the unpredictability of its future.

EDIT: The description is lacking. The lyrics are speaking for themselves and here's a translation of a few key lines.

"Come and listen kid, I'll tell you the story of mankind. At first, there was nothing. Nature was following its course. There was no roads. But man came and elements were mastered. There's no coming back anytime soon. We even began to pollute deserts.

You must breathe. It has to be said.

In a short future we'll have consumed nature. Your one eyed grand-children will ask why you have two. They'll ask how you could let this happen. You'll reply it's not my fault, it's the ancient's fault, but there will no nobody left to defend you. You'll tell them about when you could eat fruits laying in a field, how animals were roaming the forest, that every spring birds would come back.

You must breathe. It has to be said. You must breathe. Tomorrow it will get worse.

The worst part of this story is that we're slaves, somehow murderers, incapable of looking at the trees without feeling guilty, half defeated and totally miserable. So there is it kid, the story of mankind. It's not so nice and I don't know the end. You weren't born in a cabbage, but in a hole that we fill like a cesspit."

[–] peteypete420@sh.itjust.works 6 points 14 hours ago

Well here in america we already have flattened mountains. And also maybe bombed our own citizens who felt some sorta way about it.

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[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 13 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Aren't Appalachians poisoned enough?

[–] Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Does Trump own a golf course in the Appalachians?

[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago

Probably. Maybe more than one. It's a massive mountain range stretching most of the East Coast, from Georgia to Maine.

[–] Mpatch@lemmy.world 20 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Just like always USA fighting yesterday war. Lithium is already on the way out.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 6 hours ago

I would be extremely disappointed in the species if we're still using lithium batteries in 328 years time. Not that I actually believe that estimate.

[–] BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Well, the Appalachia cryptids are going to be feasting it seems...

[–] tkohldesac@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

This was my first thought. Big Cryptid© is funding this to consume workers.

[–] magnetosphere@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Most of those states are reliably blue, too, so for the current administration it’s an added bonus

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 4 points 5 hours ago (2 children)
[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 points 4 hours ago

for anyone who doesn't know what this is. the dark red is the Appalachian Bio-Region. the light red is the Appalachian Regional Commission's mandated jurisdictional scope. the ARC is a federal-state joint partnership established in 1960 with the mandate to develop the appalachian region economically as part of America's War on Poverty. HOWEVER, from the outset there were flaws with the commission's outlook and approach to the region. namely, they sought to address poverty by setting up even more extractive economies in the region rather than de-esclating the institutional violence enacted against an internal colony. in the time since the foundation of the ARC, the disparity of economic incomes within and without the region has only increased.

there's a littany of reasons for this, but core to all of them is that politicians look at a map and see economic wealth instead of people. no respect is given our needs or experiences by the oligarchs who control these so called united states of america. they think they can decide for us our futuoe, and because they have an economic and militaristic monopoly on violence, they roughly can. lumber has grven way to bituminous coal has given way to anthracite coal has given way to natural gas has given way to uranium and is now currently giving way to AI data centers and soon apparently lithium mines.

these are sad and frustrating times

[–] magnetosphere@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

I was referring to the picture used in the op

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

And China is moving from lithium to sodium

[–] Akrenion@slrpnk.net 10 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

More options for batteries is always good. Doesn't negate the demand for more storage in general.

[–] Cort@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

It's better than that even, switching to sodium for grid scale storage means more available lithium and cobalt for instances where battery size and weight actually matter. And could even lower prices on lithium

[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Original information source, not the tweet: https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/lithium-eastern-states-could-replace-imports-a-century-or-more

And the Study: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11053-026-10652-9

~~There is a very important sentence all the way at the end:~~

~~The USGS did not assess what amount would be economically recoverable.~~

Edit: On a second reading, I think this sentence applies only to the southwest Arkansas brine deposits. Sorry.

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