NicolasName

joined 11 months ago
 

Previous post from last week. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1843v7b/my_top_10_mvp_power_rankings_list_based_off_of_epm/

Summary of the method: add epm and estimated win numbers together.

Results:

  1. Jokic 14.4

  2. SGA 12.6

  3. Embiid 12.0

  4. Haliburton 9.6

  5. Lebron 9.2

  6. Chet 9.2

  7. Giannis 9.1

  8. Curry 9.1

  9. Doncic 8.6

  10. Scottie Barnes 8.5

  11. Durant 8.4

I included Durant since he was so close to 10th place. The above players are the only ones with a score above 8.

Analysis:

SGA and Embiid have the same epm and on court impact, but SGA has played more games so that’s why he has higher numbers and is 2nd and embiid is 3rd. Jokic is atop both the stats and hence why he’s 1st with the formula.

The two players out of the 11 I expect to be most controversial are Chet and Barnes. Most of their impact in terms of EPM comes from their defensive impact. EPM sees both players as top 5 defenders in the league at the moment. The other 9 players offensively are in the top 5% in the league, while those two players are in the top 15% percentile. That’s why I assume their inclusion will be controversial, as defensive impact in terms of stats are typically hard to measure. That said, I think EPM’s defensive stat is a pretty solid defensive stat out there, and it gets better over time as more games are played. In my opinion, it’s still important to include both players, since their defensive prowess could very well be real and not just a statistical aberration, and defensive skillset is an important part of the game and important when evaluating who the best players in the league are in terms of impact.

Also, this week, Giannis and Doncic made it to the top 10. Booker and Durant fell out of the top 10 (but Durant is extremely close at 11).

Note: Any improvement on technique for evaluating players seasons, I’m open to hearing besides watching a bazillion hours of nba games.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Great shot, but these misleading titles need to go.

“Monk makes a clutch shot to put the Kings up one with 10 seconds remaining” > “Monk calls game” (which he didn’t).

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

No he didn’t u/booty_sweat_juice. Someone does that, in practice or a game, and they’re getting their ass kicked. People don’t just let sexual assault slide.

Weird fan-fic though.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Who has said he’s not living up to the hype?

Imo, most of this whining stems from people upset that Chet’s just been better than Wemby for the ~15 games. Wemby’s been playing fine for someone 2 years younger.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I agree. I've done this for myself last two seasons after the all-star break.

All the discussions about these awards are pretty awful to start the year. It still has some interesting things to say. I.e. SGA, Lebron, Chet, Scottie Barnes have started off the year playing all-nba level ball (and MVP level for SGA). Of course, the data could be noisy, and things can change going forward.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Luka is at 7.1 atm. Him and Tatum are 12th and 11th respectively according to the formula.

EPM has Luka as a top 5 offensive player in the league, while being a bottom 50 player in terms of defense on the year. His offense is +6.1, defense -1.7.

Compare him SGA, they both have +6.1 on offense, but SGA is +1.7 on defense as well, and that's why SGA is one of 3 players at the top of the MVP race so far, at least according to the formula I'm using, while Luka is not.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

EPM stat has Kawhi as a top 40 player still, and he's still positive both on offense and defense.

If Kawhi is a liability on the court, then 90% of the league is a liability on the court.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

EPM for KD: +5.0 (offense), -0.1 (defense), +4.9 overall

EPM for Chet: +2.8 (offense), +3.4 (defense), +6.2 overall

Stat changes as time goes on. But right now, it sees the gap between Chet and KD on defense to be bigger than their gap on offense.

 

I have a simple formula for trying to figure out things like who has been better on the year, or who is most deserving of awards, that isn’t narrative based. Imo, it’s taking what’s considered the best all in one stat, and ranking players for awards based off of that.

Formula is simple: add epm and estimated win numbers together. Early in the season, epm will have more of an influence on the rankings. Later in the season, actual output in estimated wins will have more of an influence.

Without further ado.

  1. Nikola Jokic: 11.7

  2. SGA: 11.1

  3. Embiid: 11.0

  4. Lebron: 9.5

  5. Haliburton: 9.2

  6. Chet: 9.0

  7. Scottie Barnes: 8.9

  8. Curry: 8.8

  9. Booker 8.5

  10. Durant: 7.7

It’s still incredibly early in the season, so the rankings above are obviously still liable to change. What I found interesting is Lebron being in the top 5 still at his age (and improving on where he was at last year at this point in time), Chet being in the top 10 (honestly, the biggest stand out), and that Scottie Barnes seems to have clearly taken a leap in terms of his on the court impact. At the moment, the real MVP race seems to be between Jokic, Embiid, and SGA (the two usual suspects and SGA being added to the mix).

OKC’s time, as far as being more focused on winning now instead of the future, may be happening sooner than they thought, and there could be a chance that the organization flips sometime this year or next on moves to improve the team’s play now at the cost of future assets. Both SGA and Chet seem legit in their early run this season. According to epm, on the season (a limited sample size of course), they’re currently the best duo in the league.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If Jokic averages 9.3 assists the next 168 games he plays, he’ll be number 1 in half the games it took KAJ.

[–] NicolasName@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Chet’s epm at the moment has him as a top 10 player in the league (#6-8). Wemby at around ~100.

Chet’s started off his first season playing great basketball. At the moment, Chet’s clearly above Wemby for ROTY, which isn’t bad on Wemby (he’s 2 years younger), just about how good Chet’s been. If Chet keeps this level of play up, he could legitimately end up on an all nba team.