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6. Defend your opinion
This is a bit of a mix of rules 4 and 5 to help foster higher quality posts. You are expected to defend your unpopular opinion in the post body. We don't expect a whole manifesto (please, no manifestos), but you should at least provide some details as to why you hold the position you do.
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I agree, also here in Europe in many countries hunting is a hobby for rich people, and it has nothing to do with respecting nature. Its more about killing and showing off the trophies.
Big cars, expensive weapons and over the top attitude. Wish they would ban it.
Trophy hunting. I agree. It's disgusting.
What about catch and release fishing ? Or is that just animal torture ?
Idk man, I felt pretty bad when I hooked a fish through the eye and released him now an eye down
I'm not talking about the consumption of animals
So you're totally cool with outsourcing the killing of animals so that you can eat them, but draw the line at harvesting the meat yourself, eh? Animals from factory farmed meat plants live absolutely miserable lives. Participating in that industry is far more psychopathic than being willing to expend the time, and money to harvest your own meat, and being willing to be close enough to the process to completely understand exactly what you're doing when you eat that juicy steak.
Don't tell me it's to eat, like I said, I'm not talking about the consumption here
There are hunters who eat what they harvest, and trophy hunters. Trophy hunters are far more rare these days. They're pretty open about the fact that they're pursuing a trophy animal to kill them for sport. They're probably not reading your post, and they don't care what people think about what they do. Are they psychopaths because of that? Probably not, but they definitely lean more towards the apathetic side of the emotional spectrum.
I met a dude that was a trophy Hunter. He was Mormon. Had some crazy ideas that the entire planet was given to people by God or whatever just to exploit and take. Fucking crazy.
Finally, an unpopular take.
Agreed as far as sport hunting goes.
I grew up in the boonies where this was commonplace (and expected), and I realized early in life that there was just something "wrong" about trophy hunting and the people who relished in it. Don't get me wrong: I hunted in my youth and still go hunting on occasion, but I eat everything I kill and find taxidermy distasteful.
On the flip side, there is a legitimate population control aspect for hunting seasons. Left unchecked, deer population explodes to become a nuisance to humans (causing car accidents, eating crops, etc) as well as limiting resources for the deer (hence the strict laws / regulations surrounding it). So, it does have its purpose, but it also seems like it appeals mostly to the "psychopath" types you're describing.
I realize this doesn't cover fishing, but I don't have a horse in that race. Fishing is so damn boring that I could never get into it. But I'll agree with you on trophy fishing as it's the same mindset.
Fishing to me is a niche, and it's been a thing for so long that I don't really care about people who go out on weekends and fish. Most fisherman I know are catch and release anyway.
Sport hunting though I agree. "Men" who are really just trying desperately to prove how manly they are by taking a compound bow or rifles with night vision and perfect scopes to go out and kill a deer in a field. It's posturing, and killing something for posturing is stupid as hell to me
Fishing to me is a niche, and it's been a thing for so long that I don't really care about people who go out on weekends and fish. Most fisherman I know are catch and release anyway.
Yeah, same here. Most of the people I know who fish are all married and just use it as an excuse to get out and drink beer. I don't really need that excuse since I'm single, and if I want to go out (or stay in) and drink, I just do it lol.
My personal opinion on fishing as a pastime is funny. The idea of sitting by the lake for a few hours with friends and beers sounds like good fun, but as soon as you add that I'll also be waiting for a fish to strike, it suddenly sounds dreadfully boring to me. I just hate waiting on things.
How about you put on some waders, hike to the woods, walk into the river, and fly fish?
Fly fishing is constant action because even casting is fun. Also, you don't ever let the fly just sit there doing nothing for anything more than 30 seconds. So at most you're waiting for 30 seconds. During those 30 seconds, as your fly floats down the river, you might get the amazing chance to see a fish swim up and gobble it down right off the top of the river. Nothing more satisfying then fish taking a dry fly. It's true angling, fooling the quarry, using it's own instincts against it.
And even if you are just not catching any fish, you can always stand there and watch the bugs so you can hone in on what the fish are eating. Because they are in there, and they never stop eating.
Yeah, deer do have a real impact on environments. Japan has an interesting relationship with them, too, that I learned about recently https://youtu.be/tYuGeqBVXFk
Ohh, nice. Somewhat related, I recommend Radiolab's episode on the Galápagos and how conservationists used Judas goats to track and eradicate the population that was destroying the island. It's one of my favorites.
This is kind of a weird argument to make. Are specifically talking about only hunting/ fishing where the animal is killed and not consumed in any way?
Since I've personally never seen that as someone who's been hunting a couple times and around people who hunt.
And how do you not expect people to bring eating animals when that's basically half the purpose. People don't just go around hunting without the intent to utilise the meat.
Also do you kill roaches or worms etc. In which case what makes the thoughtless killing of one better than the other.
Also I personally love it as an outdoor activity which I rarely get.
Personally I don't see anything immoral with taxidermy either.
Upvoted for actual unpopular opinion tho.
It was more to preemptively stop the people that bring up that they do it for the purposes of consumption. Like you can consume meat without hunting and many people do and just deal with the cognitive dissonance of somebody else doing the killing. Actually going out to hunt is a much more active choice and not something you can do without getting gear, maybe a license, and making time for it.
As for taxidermy, I guess it's just an extension of the planning/killing/cleaning into even more thinking about it, remembering it, celebrating it. Otherwise, it's pretty goth and I've got no issue with it.
There were some Buddhists that wore masks to avoid breathing in insects and accumulating karma (though iirc most sects now say insects don't cause karma that way). But there were also Buddhists warriors that justified killing people as helping the dead get to their next reincarnation faster. But yeah, why do people think cats deserve better treatment than chickens or cows or deer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No one says this because that's not at all what karma means.
Wow. Really leaning into the unpopular. I can dig it.
“It’s just peer pressure from the dead AND a fallacious argument.” Man, this is great.
Let’s ignore the dead people in the room (are they with us now?) How is it fallacious?
Miss me with the "tradition" stuff, it's just peer pressure from the dead and a fallacious argument. Don't tell me it's to eat, like I said, I'm not talking about the consumption here, so please prove to me you are literate by not bringing up that point.
Well you're clearly not literate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_management
The population is managed through hunting to as to avoid the overpopulation of deer, which is catastrophic for the ecology.
Not because every single hunter is some sort of psychopath. What a childish notion.
This is a manmade problem though. We exterminated all or most of the predators that would usually do the duty of population control in our stead, because said predators didn't differentiate between livestock and wild animals.
Where I live, literally the place where they killed the last wolf in the state, is landmark, and the guy who did it has a town named after him.
Thanks for not bringing up eating! I really appreciate it.
Yes, population management is a real thing. Not denying that, and I probably should have mentioned it.
I still find the people that want to participate in it for fun very creepy.
I still find the people that want to participate in it for fun very creepy.
Some are rather weird, but I can understand liking nature hobbies in which you are alone or with a few buddies if you've had social problems. (Talking about some people I know.) But yeah. Some are weird. But also, some aren't. I don't think killing an animal means you're a psychopath, per se.
Most of the hobby isn't about the kill. Hell, most of the year killing them isn't even allowed.
Since you mentioned eating though, I'll say that I actually really enjoy game meat. It's relatively cruelty free. An optimal killshot might not still instantly kill (as in you don't aim for the brain, but the heart), but at least they've lived an actually free life, unlike powerfarmed cattle, from which you can almost taste the misery. (I'm a flexitarian and try to make somewhat moral choices at least most of the time.)
Since you mentioned eating
No, I specifically tried to avoid it, but go ahead and ignore that 🤦
Hiking is a thing you can do in nature alone or is groups that doesn't involve killing, so I don't understand your point about that making hunting less creepy. And even if most of the hobby isn't the actual killing, the rest of it is planning, setting up for, fantasizing about, talking about, etc., the killing, so that's not very convincing either. Like I get that if you have, say, cooking as a hobby that you look up recipes, buy ingredients, and eat, but nobody that has cooking as a hobby buys ingredients to not cook (raw vegans excepted 🥁🥁🛎️).
And telling me about how different flesh tastes depending on how you kill them sounds pretty creepy.
You have literally no idea what goes into deer management, do you?
Have you even ever known anyone who does that, personally?
"All of their time goes to thinking and talking and fantasising about killing".
I daresay all the hunters I know spend less time thinking about the kill than you spend time fantasising about some imaginary hunters filled with murder lust.
My brother is a ~40-year old family man. Mostly he thinks about his kids and his job. On the weekends, they might go and prepare deer feeding areas. You see, upkeep of the population is also a part of deer management.
Only a few weekends of the year do they actually kill anything. Most of the time it's just maintenance, while hiking in nature.
I don't think you realise just how important deer management is, especially in some places. The amount of deer crashes we have would skyrocket without population control. Which would mean animals and people suffering and dying.
And telling me about how different flesh tastes depending on how you kill them sounds pretty creepy.
Learn to read, maybe? It's not about how you kill them. It's about how they have lived. Which is more moral, eating a thing that didn't have the space to turn around it's whole life, or an animal which lived completely naturally it's whole life?
That's why I avoid industrially farmed animals.
You have an extremely childish, simplistic and twisted view of what deer management actually is.
Just like I said in my last comment, using your logic all plumbers are only plumbers because they have a scat fetish and fantasise about other people's excrement all day, how else would anyone be capable of doing anything like that?
Surgeons? Psychopaths, the lot of them. Must just be itching everyday to get to cut into a living person. Sickening, right, right???? /s
Damn, dude, not every hunter is a deer population manager.
Hunters do hunting, surgeons try and heal people. In one the killing is the point and in the other the cutting in incidental.
Avoiding factory farmed animals but still eating animals is something a lot of people say to pat themselves on the back, but I don't buy it.
Anyway, I can see this is a really personal thing to you and you're really upset by it. Don't think too much about why you get defensive about it, though, or why you have to carve out exceptions to try and make it less creepy.
I get that we have some species that need to be culled for the sake of the greater good /circle of life / balance of nature, etc., but I have no desire to do that work myself.
Hunting is hobby-murder regardless of the justification you put behind it.
Not all killing is murder — and to pretend the killing of any animal is takes away from actual homicide.
"I realise this is a necessary part for society to function the way it does, but I think every single person who does it is doing it for the sheer pleasure of killing"
Using that same logic, all plumbers have a scat-fetish?
It's beyond amazing to me how disconnected some people are from nature. Death is seen as something horrible, instead of something that literally every single organism will one day face.
Yes there are really weird dudes in hunting groups, but there are also completely normal, non-psychopathic non-murderers, and if you pretend there isn't, then I don't think you're ready to have an adult conversation about the subject.
You seriously think they are hunting because of a population issue? That is just why they are allowed to hunt so freely....
The hunters do not give a fuck, just want to kill some shit
You don't know a single hunter, nor did you grow up in the country.
That's painfully obvious.
You don't even know what country I'm in.
You're beyond arrogant, simplistic and naive.
They aren't allowed to hunt freely here, there's a very specific amount of felling permits.
You don't know shit and you're not willing to learn.
That's a lot of assumptions 😂 Almost all of which are completely wrong
I don't care if your butt hurt, stop whining and look inward
You don't need to kill, period.
There were times my ex and I wouldn't have eaten or suffered from malnutrition of it hadn't been for hunting and raising our own food, vegetables included.
You sure nailed unpopular, although I'm on the fence about of its unpopular or your set of rules and refusing to hear the argument about eating is what's unpopular.
Either way going to the grocery shop and buying meat is a purely psychopathic trait.
Knowing the animal has farmed for the soul purpose of being consumed, its entire life spent in a small enclosed area awaiting death.
The amount of disassociation that must go on for you to do this is insane.
And miss me with the sustainable farming and ethically farmed story. I'm not talking about that, just the torture and slaughter of millions of animals so you can have a burger from the shop.
I'm not talking about the consumption here, so please prove to me you are literate by not bringing up that point
You can not talk about it all you want but you're being intellectually dishonest by refusing to do so.
Eating meat that you know comes from a factory farm, a literal SAW like tortured life of cruelty, just to be on a conveyor assembly line to be slaughtered and you to eat, feels less psychopathic in the moment but in reality is just disassociating yourself from the literal torture you are causing.
What I'm talking about is spending days and a bunch of money planning to kill something, doing the killing, and skinning/eviscerating what was killed, and often displaying the stuffed corpse. Hunters and fishers refuse to admit they're obsessed with taking pleasure in killing something.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beers all day.
The majority of the time spent hunting and fishing is spent hanging out in nature with your friends. There's lot ls of reasons to enjoy it, even if you don't enjoy the actual killing.
And if you're going to eat meat anyways, then forcing yourself to nut up and kill the animal yourself arguably leaves less suffering in the world than plugging your ears and contributing to factory farming. Both require disassociating from the evil you're committing, and our brains are good at that because disassociation from violence was an unfortunately necessary part of our survival.
Omg, it was to avoid exactly this. Bad commenter. Where's my spray bottle?
Cognitive dissonance vis a vis actively gearing up, getting a license, and taking the time to hunt are different things and I only have an unpopular opinion on the latter.
Cognitive dissonance vis a vis actively gearing up, getting a license, and taking the time to hunt are different things and I only have an unpopular opinion on the latter.
Why would that require cognitive dissonance? A) cognitive dissonance isn't the right term, there's no two conflicting things that that requires you to believe and B) None of that is hard or unpleasant. It takes like 10min to get a fishing license, fishing rods and tackle are relatively cheap compared to most other camping gear and people love obsessing over and buying new camping gear and then spending time in nature with their friends.
The only part that requires mental disassociation is killing an animal, then cleaning it, then butchering it, then eating it. Why do you draw the disassociation line at the killing and cleaning, but not the butchering and eating?
Lol, up votes and down votes are pretty even for the post, but all the comments I'm making questioning people's excuses for why hunting is great, actually, are getting down voted. I can't tell if this is an unpopular opinion or not.
I think people only upvoted your post because it's unpopular, the rule doesn't apply to comments I think