this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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[–] FoundTheVegan@kbin.social 239 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

OK, my daughter loves Harriet Tubman. Tell me what you got!” she says. I explain our product, how we use historical women to teach girls about their worth and potential. The mother says: “But is it woke? I mean, I don’t want to teach my daughter about woke.”

And these people feel qualified to teach history.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 101 points 1 year ago (9 children)

The follow-up paragraph is even more amazing, because (like all conservatives) she can't even say what "woke" is.

[–] FoundTheVegan@kbin.social 96 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

And that's the really insidious part. The teacher is too ignorant of what she is ignorant of. If Harriet Tubman "might be too woke" then how would this women teach the nuance of protests? Of sit ins? Letters from a Birmingham jail? Much less modern protests. Her daughter is going to grow confidently saying things like

"I know all about black history, just not the woke stuff."

And not even understand the tragic irony.

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[–] pachrist@lemmy.world 154 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's not homeschooling, it's unschooling.

My parents were both teachers at private or Christian schools while I grew up, and every year, there'd always be a new couple of kids who's parents couldn't quite hack it anymore, so they'd send them to school. But couldn't bear to send their kids to those secular, godless, evolution teaching, sex driven, minority filled public schools, so they'd send them to my school instead.

Those kids were always some of the dumbest, most ignorant people on the planet. Some figure it out, but most don't. They just double down. They were usually barely literate, couldn't do math, and had no social skills. It's how you end up with a 19 year old freshman who can't read Dr. Seuss.

I know teachers aren't paid much, but if you have the audacity to say that you can do a better job than 4 or 5 professionals at teaching your kid every subject, you should have to take a test to be certified, and your kid needs testing too. Some states require it, most don't, and it shows.

[–] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I know teachers aren’t paid much, but if you have the audacity to say that you can do a better job than 4 or 5 professionals at teaching your kid every subject, you should have to take a test to be certified, and your kid needs testing too. Some states require it, most don’t, and it shows.

Jesus, this makes so much sense that it's scary to think it's not universal. Sure, you can teach your kids. Just get certified to do so first. It doesn't even have to be the same certification as professional teachers, but just a bare minimum, pass the GED level of education. To not have this kind of requirement really seems like society failing those kids.

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[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 86 points 1 year ago (22 children)

When I hear a woman say "I'm not a feminist" my first thought is "WHY THE HELL NOT??"

[–] UnspecificGravity@discuss.tchncs.de 53 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For the same reason they oppose public health, public school, trans rights, diversity, equity, and inclusion. They literally don't know what they are.

[–] jmp242@sopuli.xyz 30 points 1 year ago

I know at least 2 Republicans that when you actually talk about individual policy preferences it comes across as moderate democrat. One of them was a virulent PRO masker because of their job.

I think people just don't pay attention to actual policies, it's all just the soundbites and controversy.

[–] this_is_router@feddit.de 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

because the word feminism has different meanings for different people. for some it means equality and a way to get there. for others it means men are bad and women should get priority treatment. communication is hard when there is no objective meaning for any of the words we are using.

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[–] Sharkwellington@lemmy.one 84 points 1 year ago (10 children)

“I do have one question, though ― do you teach feminism? I mean, I believe in equality, but I am not a feminist, and I don’t want to teach it to my daughter.”

I take the approach I used in Missouri.

“What do you mean?” I ask her.

“Well, do you teach that women are better than men?”

“No, I teach all genders are equal and should be treated as such.”

She buys three kits.

Jesus wept.

[–] UnspecificGravity@discuss.tchncs.de 70 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is the problem with the kind of disinformation the right wing media pushes. If you describe something in as objective truthful a way as possible, suddenly none of this shit is controversial.

I've seen people totally on board with a description of public health turn around and just rail against how Obama care is Communist.

So much of this just depends entirely on ignorance. Kinda why these people are homeschooling in the first place.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

Our babysitter was bemoaning her lack of insurance and my ex told her about the Affordable Care Act. She was thrilled!

"At least it ain't that fuckin' Obamacare!"

Ex said the babysitter was stunned when it was explained.

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[–] dragonfly@lemmy.world 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I homeschooled my kid k-12. When I started, I had no idea how many religious hs-ers there were. I used a secular curriculum, and never even thought about teaching anything regarding religion one way or another. Once I started looking around at all the creationist curricula out there--yikes.

Anyhoo, long story short, my son went on to a college degree (he actually started college classes online at 15--one of the perks of hs-ing for us), and he's an atheist. Secular homeschoolers do exist!

ETA some links--these are a few secular homeschool curricula. There's a lot more out there, but this is the majority of what I used through the years:

https://www.calverthomeschool.com/

https://www.oakmeadow.com/

https://www.keystoneschoolonline.com/

https://www.thinkwell.com/ (Primarily math--the professor that does most of the math instruction is wonderful.)

[–] quickhatch@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago

Secular homeschool graduate here. Parents homeschooled my brother and I because the public school system was drastically underfunded and we were in quite an education desert. I always hate articles like this, as folks tend to paint broad strokes about homeschoolers... But there's a reason we never had other homeschooled friends growing up; there were a lot of crazy ones, especially in Michigan, as there is virtually no regulation.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've come to the conclusion that religious faith is a kind of mental illness that was made socially acceptable to keep primitive people from constantly killing each other, sticking instead to only occasionally killing each other within a vague set of guidelines.

Those of us free of it don't need an insane corkscrew of Escheresque logic and imaginary higher authorities using threats commanding us to not be monsters.

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I recently came to a different conclusion. It's not religious faith. It's just faith. And it's not a mental illness. It's human nature - for a significant segment of the human population.

Those people who are religious fanatics, political fanatics (e.g. Trumpists, Chavez sympathizers), pseudoscience fanatics (e.g. flat earthers, anti-vaxx, homeopathy), celebrity fanatics (Andrew Tate followers), etc, they have to share the same common traits. They're impressionable people, they need to be patt of a group, and they can't fathom the idea of switching groups.

It's just that religion-based control came first.

Or maybe those who were very religious in the past got to survive and thus the genetic traits responsible for fanaticism spread like fire?

Regardless, it's appalling.

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[–] febra@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Americans' obsession with Jesus and the Bible is so weird.

[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 1 year ago

Just a really weird loud subsect. They're so loud now because they finally realize they're the minority and they don't like it. So they throw tantrums like children because their lifestyle is a commitment to low education and blind faith in a corrupt version of reality and a misinterpretation of their own faith.

Sadly, the Internet (troll farms, social media, etc.) has enabled easy access to loudness, to make it seem like they speak for everyone, when they don't.

There are plenty of Americans that are Christian and not apeshit. There are also plenty of Americans that are neither Christian, nor apeshit. These two groups just don't go around screaming about it all day because they're normal, sane, properly educated people.

[–] Zannsolo@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My step sister is going to homeschool her kids, which will be great for her youngest since she named him Jedidiah. Shockingly someone who named their kid that stopped coming to family gettogerthers after my sister's kid came out trans.

She was sad she didn't get invited to my wifes baby shower, even if my niece wasn't planning on going I still wouldn't invite her because you can't just choose to cut out part of the family because you're a bigot and expect everyone else to still want you around.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 44 points 1 year ago (8 children)

My father was uninvited from the yearly family reunion due to him not joining the anti-transgender circle jerk that formed there.

Ironically though I still get emails asking me to come, for the record I am my father's transgender daughter.

I feel like they either missed a key detail or they're just not very bright. I'm pretty sure it's a little column a little column B.

If it wasn't a 2-hour drive, I would crash it for the free food and just not say anything to anybody.

But I think I could get a bucket from the colonel to myself for just a little bit under what I pay in gas money. Plus that side of my family is so old that all they're going to bring is fast food anyway. Everyone who was good at cooking is either dead or is too arthritic to do so. A shame, I am a southerner who appreciates the truth of The Stereotype of the home cooked meal.

The only two reasons why I'm not going to go ahead with that plan of just getting a bucket for myself, is that I would probably get a better meal and support a smaller business by getting my eight piece from Church's Chicken. Well that and it's going to be a tight month, my car and my switch need to be repaired at the same time. And I only pray Nintendo leaves my fucking Pokemon data intact because it's not like I could back that up somehow. I mean theoretically it might have been possible if the damn thing would have turned on.

Please pray for the safe return of my shiny Dialga, I gave a good Zacian for it.

[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Maybe i'm already half asleep, but i love this comment that starts out on topic then drifts into a unrelated rant written in the most entertaining way.

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[–] greenfish@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago (22 children)

I was homeschooled. I 'graduated' without a valid diploma and had to get a GED. I don't speak to my parents and my child is currently enjoying his day at public preschool. All my church friends who were raised similarly also are in similar situations. That's about all I'll say about it.

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[–] Bizarroland@kbin.social 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

“Not all women are good,” he explains.

“Not all men are good,” I respond.

That's an amazingly pithy pair of lines

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago (3 children)

We had to pull my daughter out of her middle school and put her in an online school for reasons I don't wish to go into, but thankfully the online school is run by the county school corporation and she has a curriculum built by accredited teachers who are also there to talk to the kids by phone, videoconference or in person during school hours. And they are so receptive too. Suddenly I feel like educators care about my child.

But homeschooling? I would never even think of it. I don't know the first thing about pedagogy and neither does my wife. We did a less formal version of online schooling that was hastily put together during COVID while she was still in elementary school and it relied on me doing a lot of the teaching and I sucked at it. There's a big difference between being able to do fourth grade math and being able to teach a fourth grader how to do fourth grade math. A lot of those kids are getting so underserved by having parents, even well-meaning parents, who are not educators try to give their education.

And that doesn't even go into the "my son is learning to be a Christian as a homeschooler" bullshit.

There are definitely kids who would be better served by an alternative to regular public or private school, even school they can do from home. But educators need to be behind it, not parents. Not unless those parents have degrees in education.

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[–] pigup@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago

Dumbass Christian Karens

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have often read sovereign citizen groups on Facebook, and they all "homeschool", which means the big kids babysit the little ones all day long, and sometimes CPS gets involved and removes the kids and terminates their parental rights because they realize the kids aren't getting educated and are having the shit best out of them routinely. I think homeschooling can be very dangerous for a child.

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[–] mars@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 1 year ago

I worked at a homeschool public charter school for a few years. A good chunk of the parents were only in it because they wanted to use Christian curriculum and other conservative garbage to teach their children.

The school even had me go to a professional development event that ended up being a Christian leadership conference held at a church. One of my coworkers walked out once she realized it was religious and she was forced to use her PTO for the remaining days of the conference. I should have done the same.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Because a parent working, without any accreditation or training since they were a fucking literal child, totally sounds like a preferable route. Give me a fucking break, it's an assault on standardized education.

To make it worse, the kid will have a large drop in socialization opportunities and isolated relatively speaking. You just do not get that kind of social utopia ever again in your entire fucking life... the life experiences the child misses out on is significant. You can't schedule enough playdates to make up for that.

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[–] acceptable_pumpkin@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Every time I see articles in this topic, it just solidifies my opinion that homeschooling should not be allowed. We live in a community, and part of that means learning a common set of skills, social interaction with others in your community, and secular, science-based lessons.

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[–] Treczoks@kbin.social 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thank goodness homeschooling is illegal in this country. The best effect is that crazy nutjob parents are not able to install their delusions on their kids as much as they can in the US.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Homeschooling is also illegal in Brazil, and you can bet the mf of Bolsonaro and his government tried to make it legal. The Supreme Court strike them down, with the argument that socializing was a fundamental part of education and a kid's right and the law passed by the government couldn't guarantee that the kids would have it.

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[–] elbucho@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think if you're going to be annoyed by stupid people, you probably shouldn't make stupid people a core part of your business model. I'm not saying everyone who homeschools their kids is stupid. Just most of them. Like nearly all of them.

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[–] zepheriths@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I will say homeschooling can be a good teaching style.... With oversight. I am slightly biased because I was home schooled through the 7th grade. My mom wasn't a religion nut, I was homeschooled because the regular public school didn't have the to services for my IEP. So I went to a Charter home school program that had what I needed. To be honest I think I turned out far better than I would have at any regular school.

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[–] modifier@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I was homeschooled (and I mean homeschooled, like, in the subculture) from Kindergarten through high school and am nominally a functioning member of society in spite of that fact. AMA.

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, dear, but if you've ended up on lemmy it's fair to say there is something a tiny bit non-functional about you.

[–] modifier@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 year ago

I did say nominally.

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[–] Xariphon@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago

We are planning to homeschool because school isn't liberal and woke enough.

Kidding aside, it's mostly because of the abuses of teachers, bullying, and school shootings.

[–] nixcamic@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I was homeschooled and it was fine, I did great on standardized tests, had friends, am not a fundamentalist nutjob, etc... I'd like to say to these people please stay, I know it's hard for them but what they're doing is desperately needed. Lots of those people are decent people who live in an echo chamber of conservative insanity, they need patient loving people like you to show up and let them see there's more to life than their bubble.

[–] Jtskywalker@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

Similar situation here. I was raised home schooled for all of my education. Got a GED, good score on the ACT, got a 4.0 in the community college where I got an associates degree. The problem is parents who homeschool because they don't want their kids to turn "woke" or be "converted" by exposure to the fact that non-straight, non-cis people exist. A lot of the time, the emphasis is only on indoctrination, and there is little or no actual education involved.

I have been to homeschool conferences - there are some good resources there, and a LOT of really pretty awful stuff like this article mentioned. People like the author are so incredibly impactful, even if they don't realize it. They may never see results but those seeds matter. Even if the parents don't get it, the kids will.

At a conference last year, there was a speaker talking about parenting difficult children (Kirk Martin with Celebrate Calm). He was presenting very much a solid gentle parenting approach (though he didn't call it that) that is very contrary to the culture of a lot of homeschool groups. He spent a lot of time unpacking his experiences as someone who grew up with really strict physical discipline, the impact it had on him, his experience being a parent - kind of leading people on a journey from where they might be to where they should be as parents.

He also spent a bit of his talk on how the Bible doesn't teach us to raise our kids to fight in a culture war and just really pretty clearly calling out a lot of the toxic far right christian-nationalist talking points. Sure he made a lot of people uncomfortable, but those thoughts will stick with them.

After his talk he was spent over an hour talking with people outside of the conference room answering questions. His next talk was packed as well.

Anyway, all that to say - I know it can take a lot out of someone to deal with people in those environments, but it is absolutely impactful and so desperately needed.

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[–] EzekielJK@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I grew up homeschooled for my entire K-12 experience through the 2000s and 2010s and went to my fair share of homeschool conventions throughout it. (They're really popular and they always have separate events for the kids.)

There's no governing body for any of these curriculum. My science education would always change depending on the book. At one point, I was told that all the animals in the world were vegetarian before Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil then turned carnivorous. Another series of videos I received spent a literal hour and a half "dunking" on evolution before actually giving a much more valid argument for its existence. (I actually am trying to find a way to convert the crappy flash swf files into video so I can share the insanity if anyone knows how to do that. FFmpeg hath failed me.)

Math was less volatile but had its quirks. I had one curriculum (Life of Fred) that quite literally was made with crappy clipart and not really even written by a person who was qualified to make kids content. It was just purposely obtuse and my mother took me off of it once I wasn't making any progress on it. I made it through two of those books for what it's worth.

Economics and "stewardship" was also high-key Republican trickle down economics and one time they actually blamed social programs for causing the Great Depression.

But, all that said, I got a super advanced education that put me well ahead of most other kids my age and I'm only listing the worst aspects of Christian homeschool curricula. Generally, homeschooling (Christian or secular) is almost entirely dependent on the parent actually giving a crap about their kid's unique needs and strengths. At the very least, if you're going to homeschool (no, I don't mean charter school) your kid for an extended period, make sure that you're involved with activities with other kids and that you really look through what your kid is reading.

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[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Homeschooled kids are either geniuses or ignoramuses. There is no in-between.

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[–] greenmarty@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (14 children)

Home school is bad because:

  • what people learn isn't controlled by official requirements
  • to teach kids properly one need special type of education themselves not parent who comes home at in the evening.
  • there is no diploma so getting job will be like "trust me bro, ima best"
  • socialization between kids is important.

That being sad US is weird in some of these aspects and they are not properly fullfilled even at schools.

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[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 1 year ago

We’re in Missouri again. We are selling a lot of product — in fact, we had our first mother and son make a purchase so he could learn about Sacagawea. It made me happy.

It makes me very happy too. I'm going to end my night with this thought.

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