Photography

I used to work in Child Care Photography - we’d go to the Kinder and only have 10 minutes with each child to get 10 “poses” or more plus “family photos” in that same 10 mins.

When a child didn’t participate I’d take 2-3 photos to prove (1) I tried (2) they were not having it. Kids that young you can’t force.

I’d just give them the 2 photos and offer a refund and say can try next year

From my personal experience all the successful and efficient family photo sessions that involve toddlers, were never conducted by a photographer alone. There were always an assistant of some sorts who actively get the kids’ attention, cause them to smile or laugh, and potentially stop your Christmas tree being knocked down.

Yeah no for a hundred bucks you’ve put in way more effort than expected. The second time the tree landed on the floor, I would’ve said that time was up and this isn’t going to work. Why refund? Did they bring it up? They know your time isn’t free. Charge and send the best photos and get on with life.

Can you collage the ones where only one person is looking?

On red carpets it's quite common for groups to be looking at a different photographer each, so my usual approach is to shoot like an American and then merge in the heads to get a final image that looks good with everyone looking in the same direction.

Sometimes a refund is the cheapest option

1. Deliver the two good ones right now, so she feels good.

2. After a few days, deliver all rest of the ones that are actually sharp.

That way she knows it was her kid/her parenting that was the problem. She knows it's not you.

Honestly, I think some tough love might be appropriate here.

Of the 340 original images, I have 2 good ones. The rest are blurry, look SUPER disorganized, only have one person looking, or just overall look bad.

Young kids aren't always gonna cooperate. But a few things stand out here:

• You're charging for this service. Parents are going to expect that you have some level of expertise in trying to get them to cooperate. Yes, you can't always get kids to behave, but you know who else you can't always get to cooperate? The parents. There's a reason the parents might not seem super interested or involved: They're expecting you to handle it, since they're paying you. You need to work on setting expectations with the clients first, understanding whose role is what, and laying out what you need from them and what you are able to do. One out of three shoots going well is not a good percentage for a professional.
• The results. I've seen plenty of photos where the kids aren't looking, but the photo is still great. I've shot an event for children, I know it's tough. But you've got to be a little better prepared. The other issue here might be time - you had a 15-minute window? That's... wrong. More time than that is needed to get a good photo session. I'd recommend you never try to book something for only 15 minutes of shooting.
• Blurry shots. That one's kind of on you; you should be managing your exposure settings to avoid that. A three month old isn't exactly Usain Bolt. I don't know if you were using flash or not (and while critical for regular portraits, I could see toning it down for infants and young kids). But you need to manage your technique and set up a more controlled situation if that's coming up.

WHAT do I do? Do I offer a refund? Do I offer a reshoot? I didn't make hardly any money off these shoots as it is, and I truly don't want to work with these people again.

You're a professional. Did you deliver what was promised? If you don't feel like your photos were what was promised, you haven't delivered your end of the contract. (Also, have a contract.) Keep in mind that even a full refund wouldn't be great - those people took time out of their day to do this, maybe bought new clothes for their kid. Their reviews could sink your reputation before you even really start.

If I felt like I didn't deliver what was expected, I'd offer them a choice of reshoot or refund, along with any of the shots you had for no cost. I'd consider partial refund and reshoot. That's what I'd expect if I paid someone for a service and they didn't deliver on it.

Finally, I don't know your level of experience. However, it's very common for people to jump into trying to make money from photography before they really are qualified for it. I don't personally think there's integrity in taking peoples' money as your training opportunity rather than when you're actually ready. But if you're having issues with technique and cannot reliably deliver the results that people want, maybe you should reassess whether you're in a fair position to solicit clients.

Because holidays means vacation where I am from I was so confused about what jobs of sessions these were until the penny dropped.

you set yourself up for failure...

shooting small kids and having a christmass tree in reaching distance is just asking for the kid to want to play with the shiny things

shooting small kids without at least an assistant (childwrangler is what they are called) is asking for problems...

you can handle the kid, or you can be the photographer, not both

Good kindy and 1st grade teachers are amazing at controlling kids. Know anyone in that line of work? Have them join you next time and learn.

What aperture and exposure were causing the blurry images? Honestly I'm not a pro photographer, I'm just very curious and the info may help others help you out, especially if you plan a re-shoot. Hope you work it out and the clients are reasonable.

Refund and take it as a lesson you had to pay to learn.

The price you charge/market will always reflect the clients you end up getting.

Best example of this is FB market place, when ever i put stuff up for free the amount of rude, entitled messages you get, but just put a small nominal price on it, yes i get less traction but the transaction usually goes smoothly.

So never under value yourself, experience isn't always the factor for pricing. (especially in artistic endeavours) if they like your work/style they should be willing to pay, and getting crappy clients will only ever lead to more crappy clients.

Perhaps you’re being too hard on yourself and too self-critical. Maybe have someone else (not the client) look at the photos and pick out some shots. They might see something you’re not, as they were not part of the shoot. I would hand over some of the better shots first before even considering a refund. Leave that for them to bring up if they feel necessary. They may actually not think the photos are that bad.

I say give them what you think is best and if they’re unhappy, give them all the unedited pics.

We hired a photographer for family pics while on vacation. Our son through a tantrum throughout the whole hour we booked her for. Our photographer was great and we didn’t expect the pictures to turn out well, but we got a few nice ones. It was actually a little funny going through the pics because in some you could see how worn down we were trying to wrangle in a 2 year old, lol. Also, my theory is you just need 1 pic you’re happy with to hang up on the wall and the rest can be duds.

Lesson learned,to be honest I interview every client first before I take the job ,if I don't like them I pass ,so money doesn't mean anything compared to your mental health ..so now you know

She wasn't fucking having it

Certainly, kids are tough to handle on many occasions. The times I've worked with kids and they don't want to cooperate as much, I take a picture of them doing anything (doesn't matter even if they're looking away from the camera or looking down or up, just make sure their face is shown) and then show them the picture. I tell them something along the lines of "Hey, look at this! This is how you look! Do you like it?" In the few occasions I've done this, they go CRAZY about it and start laughing and smiling and overall more cooperative. Sure, this is not 100% guaranteed to improve their mood but is worth the shot.

You’ve gotten some great advice but I’d also like to mention that it may also be a good idea to hold off on minis until you’re more experienced OR only offer them to established clients.

Minis can be STRESSFUL. I have a love/hate relationship with them. If you don’t know the clients - it can be even more stressful to for that into 15 minutes. You have no idea what to expect.

I started only offering holiday minis to my established clients and if I need to fill a spot - I’ll maybe take someone new. It isn’t AS stressful.

Even with established clients - sometimes this is how it goes. I’ve offered to redo a shoot or two because I truly didn’t get any good pictures. The clients were glad I was honest up front.

This must be so frustrating for the full time professionals out there. Being undercut by basically an amateur who’s just looking to make a few extra bucks

Yes, if you feel like your photos are not good, then you give them a refund, of course.

Also, you have to understand the photography part this kind of job is very minor, the actual job is to manage people to get what you want. And it’s a very hard job.

You're getting some good advice here, but you're also getting some of the worst advice I've ever seen in this sub, and I'm worried it'll discourage you from continuing.

You were running mini sessions, and most people don't seem to know what "mini" means. Sure, maybe your settings were off, but 300+ shots in 15 minutes is only bad for a mini during editing. Any more than 15 minutes, 20 max, and it's not a mini session anymore.

Your only real mistake was not having someone help wrangle kids. I've done daycare photos for 15 years, and I have SECONDS to win a kid over to not cry (in my timeframe, if a baby or toddler smile, it's a coincidence) and if the teachers I ask to sit beside the kid to stop them from bolting out don't care, I'm having a bad day.

Take a second look at the photos. You may be just frazzled. If they're still as bad as you say, contact the mom, tell her the issue. The odds are good she understands. Offer to reshoot or refund, but don't lose any more sleep over one mini session.

15 minutes?

• 15 minutes for most shoots is incredible short. I would recommend AT LEAST 30 minutes.

• Be an assistant photographer for a photo studio, wedding photography, and live events. You'll learn so much. You're working in a professional atmosphere and real live environment. Let them know you're willing to work for less pay so you can gain the invaluable experience.

• If you can't land an assistant job then practice with your friends and family so you're more comfortable doing photo shoots. Practice shooting with studio lights, indoors, outdoors, low light, etc.

• I'm not sure how comfortable and experienced you are with your camera. Make sure you understand your camera functions and lenses thoroughly. Have you presets laid out for any scenario, for example, photo shoots, street photography, sports, etc.

if you've taken 340 pictures and failed to get one good photo, then this business aint for you. Regardless of how awful the client is/was

If you're having this issue this early on In your photo career and charging less than half the rate of other photographers in the area you're probably not ready to be charging people tbh.

Alright folks are being real jerks and calling it tough love. I’m just gonna give you actual tough love that’s useful and not shitting on you. I’m a family photographer and I specialize in candids. If you want to see me work I have the link on my Reddit profile.

First: minis are like the boss level of a dungeon crawler. You have 15-30 minutes to get great photos of strangers. That’s hard. In a normal hour session, I need the first 15 just to get to know my subject and get them comfortable with me and the camera (especially if they haven’t had photos done before). So while I respect your effort in this one, I’d say instead maybe try offering like holiday specials, do 45 minutes for $150. They don’t make as much money compared to the 15 minute minis you were doing but they raise your chance for repeat clients because you have more time.

Second: I keep seeing a lot of folks talking about how you need and assistant for family photos, especially with little ones. I can confidently say, no you do not. I am a family photographer and I work alone. My family photos have won awards and the oldest child I’ve photographed is 5 years old. The key is communication with the parents. Put it in your contract and also discuss either them that they will wrangle the little one but you will engage with the kid to help entertain. You and the parents or adults are a team and you expect that team work will make that magic happen. So I have parents bring a toy, both ones the kids love and an aesthetic one if they’d prefer. I tell the parents I don’t mind if the kid plays in the grass if they don’t. I make sure the parents that hire me know I’m not there to get super posed photos, I’m there to get photos of their family, as it is. So if baby Tommy likes to eat dirt, then I guess we will have photos of that because I make it clear I will not be telling the children no or disciplining unless they are risking their well being.

Third: I understand why you took 360 photos in 15 minutes but I’m telling you, it’ll serve you much better to take less photos and slow down. I take about 250 photos in a one hour session with a family of four. You have to at some point trust that you can get the shot. Its hard to practice this without kids so I recommend either photographing pets or animals. They aren’t the same but they move similar to children which is unpredictable. Figure out how to master your autofocus or get quick at manually focusing. I personally don’t like autofocus, I prefer manually focusing. That’s just me! Something that can help you take less photos but more that you like overall, give yourself prompts to photograph and then only let yourself take one photo of the thing your photographing. This is a personal time project rather than a client one. Basically the goal is to slow down, compose the shot, and get rid of “will there has to be at least one good one in there.” Throw away the idea that the camera took a good photo. You are the photographer, you take the good photo.

Fourth: to get more families to practice with, while also not discrediting yourself, offer a special. This is going to be controversial but this is what I did and it helped a ton. Do a special like “everyone that books with me now through next week for the month of January will be entered to receive their session entirely free” or “I have three slots available in December for any families who are willing to allow me to experiment with some new concepts. The session cost is on me as a thank you for your participation.” Both of these allow you to get clients you can practice with and they remove the performance anxiety of being paid. They also don’t undervalue your work. I never offer discounts. Ever. No 50% off, no 10% off. It’s either full price or it’s free. I’m not on sale. I can gift my time but I will not discount it. There’s a huge difference in the two.

Fifth: I know it’s frustrating for us when the parents just don’t give a fuck but imagine how awful that lady felt with her husband for basically being a lump on a log while she wrangled the kid for photos. Like absolutely you’re allowed to be frustrated, not discrediting that! Also perspective usually helps me calm down.

Okay finally: what do you do about the photos for this particular client. Either let her know you only got a few you liked and you’d like to offer her a redo session for free, or find five in the 360 you took. The kid doesn’t have to be smiling or looking at you. Try to look at the photos as if it was your own kid if you need to in order to see the cutest moments or something. Even if you don’t want them as return clients, they tell friends and if they are sending the Christmas card out, imagine that that someone might ask who took the photos. So do what you need to do in order to feel proud of yourself or maintain your sense of integrity.

Sorry that was a novel. I just hate bullies and people who shit on new folks. Photography is my absolute passion and I’m a more the merrier kind of person.

Sounds like this family gets to send Christmas cards out this year with only 1 or 2 photos 😬

I’d be mortified if my kids knocked anything over anywhere.

I would expect to pay more if my kids were a-holes.

I would expect to pay more if my kids needed to me wrangled for photos, not less.

I’ve done mini shoots and promo shoots as a customer with my kids and husband/boyfriends before and expressed to them I expected their BEST BEHAVIOR because these things were going to family and on my walls FOREVER.

It isn’t all on you. But you should have stuff in your contract with your clients. Mine have always said if we missed our appointments our fee was void. If our kids were jerks the fee was void. If we damaged stuff in studio the fee was void. That a limited time slot AND limited number of pictures were being taken and that we would choose X amount of photos from that set, and would choose Y amount to be printed from that set in Z sizes.

I might get buried for this. And it's asking if you have a totally SEPARATE skill.

But is it possible to photoshop several of the bad pictures together into one good picture?

I did this all the time when I was doing Wedding and Engagement photography. If you're good at it, no one will ever know. It pretty much became a secret weapon, as long as the photos are in focus there is almost nothing I can't fix in post.

I’ve paid for mini sessions for 5 photos. They are 15 minutes and usually a someone who is a semi professional learning. They were too hard on you and not respectful to you.

One nugget of advice with any client. Make it collaborative and get away from transactional. The more the client is invested, they’ll be active instead of waiting for you to “do something”. When I changed that one thing, my interactions have been better than ever.

As a portrait photographer of 10+ years I would not offer 15min sessions. What a nightmare! My number 1 priority is making sure my clients are comfortable and relaxed and with some people that can take 30mins.I also do makeup and hairstyling, so that aids in setting the atmosphere and getting people to relax. I do wonder what the motivation for newbies to do minis is. It seems that you do not feel confident in your craft and thus you need to charge as little as possible.

Photography is important and should be highly regarded - That starts with photographera themselves. It's not fast food. You are capturing and documenting people's lives, moment, milestones and creating images to cherish.

Here's a tip, photograph friends until you feel like you should charge properly. Offer a mini shoot session to a group of friends and their kids on the proviso that they share and recommend you. Gather Google reviews etc. Get good at your craft! I'm much more a fan of newbies shooting for free rather than undercutting my profession. Also mini sessions undercut you. My sessions don't include any prints and my prints start at $200. I'm not even the most expensive, but I know my worth.

Here's the thing if you compete on price and discount your services you will attract complainers.

Your prices should be worked out based on what you need and want to make in a year, not by looking at what everyone else in your area charges and then undercutting because you don't think you are as good. Photographers need to stop doing that because at the end of the day, it's not real or sustainable. I guarantee those other photographer did the exact same thing with their pricing.

So offer them a reshoot AND give their money back. Make sure you win them over and they walk away living the experience and the photos. Don't set a timer, be there for as long as it takes. Connect with husband, he obviously felt uncomfortable. Make everyone smile and also don't forget how very important it is that the mother is present in the photo. So many women are invisible as they aew always the ones taking the pictures of the kids with dad. What an incredible opportunity to learn!! Good luck!