this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023
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The Mavs actually had Brunson and Dinwiddie, but let's just leave it at Brunson for the sake of argument. The Mavs had what now appears to be a really good core around Luka a few years ago, but I guess they didn't want to pay Brunson. After a series of trades, they ended up with Kyrie Irving.

The team looks good right now and Kyrie looks like he has accepted being Robin. Come playoff time, having a guy like Kyrie is going to be very valuable. He has experience and can take over games, especially when doncic is cold.

On the other hand, Brunson has been playing really well and looks good leading the Knicks offense alongside a cold-shooting Julius randle. I'm not sure that Brunson would be content ball watching on the Mavs and waiting for his turn like he would be on the Mavs.

My main argument for Brunson is that he is on his way up while Kyrie is on his way down. Kyrie, on the other hand, has been one of the best iso scorers in the league for a decade and seems to have accepted a backseat role.

Who would the Mavs rather have?

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[–] NeatTry7674@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

When the playoffs come I’d rather have kyrie.

[–] Padulsky21@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Brunson as the #1 option in the playoffs has already had more accomplishments than Kyrie ever has being a #1 option. Kyrie is awful in the playoffs ever since leaving Cleveland.

Please don’t make me defend a Knicks player man…

[–] DocumentEarly5421@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

well Kyrie is the 2nd option, so it doesn't matter

[–] 2020IsANightmare@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Did you prefer Brunson or Irving in the playoffs last postseason?

[–] NoWayNotThisAgain@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I’m happy with this team and this roster. We’re way better than we were 2 years ago. This years roster with that teams chemistry and teamwork has a much higher ceiling.

[–] tapk69@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Kyrie is a lovely player. Brunson looks like a fish, flops like a fish out of water and the only reason Knicks have a winning record is because the refs allow them to foul and swallow their whistles.

[–] KANGZNATION@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Kyrie and it’s not close.

[–] Apprehensive-Tea-39@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Fifth_Element_Matrix@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I second this.

[–] rabid89@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If you can convince Kyrie to lay off all the off-court bullshit, be unselfish and play for the team, and just stfu and play ball, it's Kyrie by a landslide.

But that if is the size of Siberia.

[–] jakekerr@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

He's checked all those boxes so far in Dallas.

Kidd gets absolutely hated on in /r/mavericks, but in Dallas he has been the very definition of a player's coach. Everyone loves him, and finds him relatable and the team culture has always been good under him, even if the team hasn't been that good. Kyrie has stated repeatedly he likes playing under Kidd, even joking with a smile on his face about having practices on days he wishes they had off.

Which is a long way of saying that Kyrie seems very comfortable in Dallas (he also has a seemingly pleasant relationship with the local media), with his role next to Luka and as a veteran, and with the Mavs org.

[–] CheckFar8907@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah I don’t understand why Kidd got so much hate last season. Not his fault the FO let Brunson walk for nothing and they had to trade whatever defense they had left for Kyrie, on top of the fact that their best big man was Dwight Powell.

Now look, they made moves to improve the team around Luka and Kyrie and it’s paying off so far

[–] PSi_Terran@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

He's literally doing all that right now.

[–] 2020IsANightmare@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

It's November 18th.

[–] IntotheBeniverse@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Just wait. Let’s get one entire full season of normalcy from Kyrie: October through playoffs, and then we can start giving him the benefit of the doubt

[–] SpicyP43905@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Back to the circle jerk you go.

[–] WTakesOnly@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Kyrie is arguably the best point guard in the league right now

[–] 2020IsANightmare@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

There's plenty - PLENTY!!!!!!!!!! - of ammo to hate on World B. Flat, but there's no way you even tried to leave a serious comment there.

He's not even the best PG on his OWN TEAM.

[–] General_Tsos_Burrito@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would rather have Brunson, Finney-Smith, Dinwiddie, and picks than Kyrie.

[–] fun_hung@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Technically it’s Kyrie + Lively because losing our depth at the deadline also helped us tank to keep our pick. I’d much rather have our rookie center (who’s been completely AWESOME so far) than the old core back which already reached its ceiling in 2022.

[–] 2020IsANightmare@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

We're doing that weird thing right now.

Lively has been very decent so far.

He's 19!!!! There's going to be a lot of poor performances and return to the mean coming up.

Not hating on him. He's a great prospect.

Just the reality of sports.

[–] General_Tsos_Burrito@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Brunson definitely hadn't yet reached his ceiling in 2022. Obviously he might not have exploded in Dallas like in NY but who knows how good the 2023 Mavs with NY Brunson could have been.

[–] Nillafrost@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Kyrie in a Cleveland type role with no drama is probably the ideal 2nd option. Add in the other pieces the mavs have and it’s much better than the mavs with brunson

[–] AllDayEnJay@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You’re also forgetting the Assets the Mav’s used to get Kyrie West.

Mav’s could have had Brunson on a significantly cheaper deal while still having Dinwiddie, DFS, their Unprotected 2029 1st and 2-2nd’s to use on another Trade.

So it’s Kyrie West vs Brunson, Dinwiddie, DFS, an Unprotected 2029 1st and 2-2nd’s.

[–] NegativeJury8639@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

No that's not the question. The question is which player would you rather have on that team. Period.

[–] LeGoat333@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I’d still rather have current Brunson on his contract and age than current Kyrie. More upside all around.

As a Mavs fan and someone who watched all those old Cleveland runs (2016 Kyrie is about as good as it gets). I think Brunson is the better long term choice for best success.

However I’m really hoping Kyrie can go back in time and have a 2016 type year and the Mavs go on a run.

[–] Nillafrost@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Kyrie is the ideal guy next to Luka. Brunson is good, and might be a better first option guy, but I don’t think he is good enough to be the second best guy and win a chip. We already know Kyrie can do it. He just needs to not be dramatic and stay healthy. Couple of big “ifs” for sure. Kyrie also plays sneaky good defence when it’s a big game or in the playoffs.

Kyrie is so good next to a guy like Luka because he can play so well with minimal touches. He can dance better than anyone, but he is also super efficient off ball.

[–] SpeclorTheGreat@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Kyrie is a substantially better player than Brunson if he can stay on the court.

[–] alfi_k@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Especially of the ball. Jalen is great but he would never put up his NYK numbers in Dallas, not even close, he needs the ball just like Luka.

And I guess they both have room to grow on defense.

[–] biinroii01@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

and kyrie doesnt need the ball?

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[–] jules4ever69@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Jalen this season is doing well of the ball and defense.

[–] Educational-Pin-1019@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] Sad_Conclusion8488@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Kyrie. He's surprised and impressed. I was convinced he was just another selfish wacko knucklehead. He's not.

[–] UnsuspectingS1ut@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Framing it as Brunson or kyrie is inherently disingenuous tho, Brunson is making 26 million on the Knicks, and it was rumored he would’ve taken like 11.5 mil on the mavs. Kyrie is making 40 million. The question isn’t Brunson or kyrie, it’s Brunson + role players or kyrie.

[–] 2020IsANightmare@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If it WAS just Brunson or Flat, I would still choose Brunson.

But, it is Brunson + role players + no drama vs Flat.

[–] hooka_donchick@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Brunson was not taking a penny less than 25m. He was gone even regardless if the mavs matched it.

[–] Moe4ver@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Kyrie.

Brunson played too similar to Luka. Kyrie better for due to his iso scoring, shooting and playmaking.

Only painful thing about losing Brunson was the lack of asset return. He also brought good chemistry.

[–] TFAR_1@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

And the vibes were immaculate.

[–] TatumTopFye@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] modrics_hairband@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Like comeon, its kyrie

[–] Annual-Shape7156@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Kyrie because it led directly to Lively. We lost Brunson but it forced us to trade for a better player and we got an impact center because roster/chemistry issues.

So thank you JB!!! And yes Kyrie is better. Our floor is potentially slightly lower but our ceiling is way higher.

With JB and Luka we would’ve made the playoffs, gotten eliminated in the 2nd round, no draft pick and been asset strapped.

This is the best situation the Mavs have been in in a long time. Just facts. Again, thank you JB. Enjoy mediocrity in NY!!

[–] knicksunderpants@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Lol

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself of something.

Pretty sad. Lol

[–] jules4ever69@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

LMAO. Deliberately tanking for that pick for a an average center really got ya’ll thanking Kyrie. See you in the play-ins when both Luka and Kyrie goes down

[–] StefonDiggsHS@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If Kyrie can stay on the court then Kyrie 1000%

[–] Drag0nborn1234@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I think Kyrie fits really well with Luka, also in the past with LeBron and Harden (for their few games) he's had great synergy and they play similar to Luka.

If Kyrie can stay healthy and find his rhythm I take him over Brunson easily.

[–] Ziyuh@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I'd rather have Brunson because he's younger (meaning he lines up with Luka a bit more if you re-sign him), seems to be less injury prone, and is on a smaller contract. Also, he hasn't shown himself to be a possible problem in the locker room like Kyrie has the potential to be.

As for current level of play, Kyrie is probably a bit better, but I'm a little suspicious that he might fall of earlier than people think. He's already not the quickest guy in the league, and small, score first, guards who are poor on defense and tend to get injured often fall off fast.

[–] asapfetty@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Just saying. Kyrie hasn’t had a playoff run like Brunson had last season since he was 24 in Cleveland. Brunson had more 30 point playoff games last season than Kyrie had in the last 3 playoff runs.

Don’t know what Kyrie has shown in the last 7 years can be reliable in the playoffs. It’s all hypothetical

[–] Treewave@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Yes. With the ball in his hands. The question was who did the mavs better, and KAI may be the better off ball player.

[–] ejiggle@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

God, this sub is insane. "If all of these imaginary things were true, then Kyrie for sure" is not a real answer

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