This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
All this.. all this multi billion dollar development, all those 'brains', all the time and space a tech company occupies in it's lifetime... just to force you to watch ads?
What a shitty society and what a shitty communication system we have, just because some morons want to earn some billions more...
There is no endgame when it comes to greed, those pricks will always want more.
I feel it's worse than this. Imagine being the brightest mind in college, have a ton of experience, just to invent new algorithms to get people to click on more ads.
I consider it close to going to school for engineering or design and winding up being the guy in charge of making airplane seats ever smaller and more uncomfortable.
Yeah, the brightest minds of recent generations are figuring out how to get people to watch ads. We probably could have had fusion energy by now, but instead have ads.
But think of the investors! How can we give them month-after-month gains without forcing ad's down our user's throats? /s
It's more about doing what investors think will give them gains, so that they keep investing, don't quit, and don't press out the people in charge of the company.
Dunno why I have this association, but when directors of Apple pressed out Jobs, Apple's stuff in the following decade was rather cool. I just played with MacOS 9 a bit, with its classical software like Hotline, and it really had a "culture" and an "ecosystem", and not what Apple's ads after 2000 tell you, but these seem to have been real.
Multiple billionaires have answerd the question, "when is it enough?" With the reply: "when I own everything."
We should treat these cocksuckers like addicts and start looking at reform and rehabilitation! Think of the children!
Vanderbilt answered "how much is enough" with "more".
Long ago, we praised Chrome for helping destroy Internet Explorer. Now it has become the same. No for-profit corporation is your friend.
Mozilla really did that with Firefox and Thunderbird to help kill IE and Outlook Express. Chrome came quite a bit later, but was instrumental in bringing about a performance reckoning, and a push for universal standards, sort of creating that movement. Really shocking now when you think of Google doing that.
I never praised for Chrome destroying IE. I praised Chrome for standardizing many of the web protocols, which inevitably made it easier to switch between web and mobile.
Write to your country’s anti-trust body if you feel Google is unilaterally going after the open web with WEI (content below taken from HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880390).
US:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation antitrust@ftc.govEU:
https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.euUK:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition… general.enquiries@cma.gov.ukIndia:
https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ https://www.cci.gov.in/filing/atdExample email:
Google has proposed a new Web Environment Integrity standard, outlined here: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/blob/main/explainer.md This standard would allow Google applications to block users who are not using Google products like Chrome or Android, and encourages other web developers to do the same, with the goal of eliminating ad blockers and competing web browsers. Google has already begun implementing this in their browser here: https://github.com/chromium/chromium/commit/6f47a22906b2899412e79a2727355efa9cc8f5bd Basic facts: Google is a developer of popular websites such as google.com and youtube.com (currently the two most popular websites in the world according to SimilarWeb) Google is the developer of the most popular browser in the world, Chrome, with around 65% of market share. Most other popular browsers are based on Chromium, also developed primarily by Google. Google is the developer of the most popular mobile operating system in the world, Android, with around 70% of market share. Currently, Google’s websites can be viewed on any web-standards-compliant browser on a device made by any manufacturer. This WEI proposal would allow Google websites to reject users that are not running a Google-approved browser on a Google-approved device. For example, Google could require that Youtube or Google Search can only be viewed using an official Android app or the Chrome browser, thereby noncompetitively locking consumers into using Google products while providing no benefit to those consumers. Google is also primarily an ad company, with the majority of its revenue coming from ads. Google’s business model is challenged by browsers that do not show ads the way Google intends. This proposal would encourage any web developer using Google’s ad services to reject users that are not running a verified Google-approved version of Chrome, to ensure ads are viewed the way the advertiser wishes. This is not a hypothetical hidden agenda, it is explicitly stated in the proposal: “Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots. This creates a need for human users to prove to websites that they’re human, sometimes through tasks like challenges or logins.” The proposed solution here is to allow web developers to reject any user that cannot prove they have viewed Google-served ads with their own human eyes. It is essential to combat this proposal now, while it is still in an early stage. Once this is rolled out into Chrome and deployed around the world, it will be extremely difficult to rollback. It may be impossible to prevent this proposal if Google is allowed to continue owning the entire stack of website, browser, operating system, and hardware. Thank you for your consideration of this important issue.
Thanks! Here's the message without all the BBC quotes to make it easier to copy for app users:
Dear FTC,
Google has proposed a new Web Environment Integrity standard, outlined here: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/…
This standard would allow Google applications to block users who are not using Google products like Chrome or Android, and encourages other web developers to do the same, with the goal of eliminating ad blockers and competing web browsers.
Google has already begun implementing this in their browser here: https://github.com/chromium/chromium/commit/6f47a22906b28994…
Basic facts:
Google is a developer of popular websites such as google.com and youtube.com (currently the two most popular websites in the world according to SimilarWeb) Google is the developer of the most popular browser in the world, Chrome, with around 65% of market share. Most other popular browsers are based on Chromium, also developed primarily by Google. Google is the developer of the most popular mobile operating system in the world, Android, with around 70% of market share.
Currently, Google’s websites can be viewed on any web-standards-compliant browser on a device made by any manufacturer. This WEI proposal would allow Google websites to reject users that are not running a Google-approved browser on a Google-approved device. For example, Google could require that Youtube or Google Search can only be viewed using an official Android app or the Chrome browser, thereby noncompetitively locking consumers into using Google products while providing no benefit to those consumers.
Google is also primarily an ad company, with the majority of its revenue coming from ads. Google’s business model is challenged by browsers that do not show ads the way Google intends. This proposal would encourage any web developer using Google’s ad services to reject users that are not running a verified Google-approved version of Chrome, to ensure ads are viewed the way the advertiser wishes. This is not a hypothetical hidden agenda, it is explicitly stated in the proposal:
“Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots. This creates a need for human users to prove to websites that they’re human, sometimes through tasks like challenges or logins.”
The proposed solution here is to allow web developers to reject any user that cannot prove they have viewed Google-served ads with their own human eyes.
It is essential to combat this proposal now, while it is still in an early stage. Once this is rolled out into Chrome and deployed around the world, it will be extremely difficult to rollback. It may be impossible to prevent this proposal if Google is allowed to continue owning the entire stack of website, browser, operating system, and hardware.
Thank you for your consideration of this important issue.
How is this not anti competitive behaviour?
because the us govt doesn't give a shit about monopolies.
EU might get up in their shit though.
I sure hope so.
This is way worse than what Microsoft did back in the day with Internet Explorer. They were forced to build a browser selection popup into their operating system because of that.
And poured every browser and their sister into it just to make the whole selection process shitty.
Canada doesnt either. We are run by oligopolies
Google execs can rot in hell honestly
I really cant put it into words how much I hate google right now... Capitalism at its finest
Here it is on PeerTube, since we're on the Fediverse and probably wanting to avoid Google.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=NLaePqv5Sec
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
TL;DW version?
It's basically all the bad things that tech writers have already warned about, except shit just got real. Google is actually shipping WEI in Chrome and large important sites and services are no longer working except in Chrome and with Goggle's blessing.
The author makes a very good comparison with Android, where you need a locked-down device and Google Services installed to be able to use Netflix, or your bank's services.
The rest of the article dives into what WEI claims to achieve vs what it's actually doing, and who it really benefits. Good read if you're still unclear about that.
I was multitasking while watching but I'm pretty sure this is the idea.
Googles "web DRM" makes it impossible (or extremely difficult) to lie to a website about your browser, operating system, and whether or not you're human (or a bot). Websites can then use this info to deny access if they decide not to trust any of the info given.
This could easily be used to suppress the use of open source software which is probably why so many FOSS projects and foundations oppose it.
It doesn’t prove you’re not a bot though, only that the request is coming from a ‘genuine device’. You just need to pipe your malicious requests through a ‘real browser’ to get them approved and you’re set.
So the old Internet we knew is dead, time for Internet 2.0?
Technically, this is web ~~3 or 3.5~~ 4 or 4.5
This has happened before.
Web3 must be around ten years ago by now. I had laptop stickers.
You are right, where have I been. I changed it, thanks. I will say the jump from web 2 to web 3 was a downgrade. Web 4 seems to be concerned with social media and AI, though, so I guess that's where we're at.
That was quick (Google integrating it). But of course it was...
About time I finally switch (back) to Firefox then. Have been using Vivaldi, but the only real solution is to move to a non-Chromium browser.
Thing is, if this takes off and websites adopt it, FF will be forced to integrate it aswell. I'd be fine with some websites not working in FF, but my mother will call me and say "the internet is broken". I guess Mozilla doesn't want and/or cannot afford that.
That is correct, but for now, Mozilla has the right stance on the matter.
I'm still waiting for what Apple's stance is. They integrated functionality into Safari that technically works similarly, but that's only used for captcha verification. I can see them choosing either side to be honest. They can embrace the Web Integrity API because it fits their "closed ecosystem" (in case of iOS devices) type of product quite well, but on the other hand they don't really have a website that would be suitable to use the Web Integrity API, so why would they give in to what Google wants? If Apple doesn't integrate Web Integrity API into Safari, I don't see any major website using it. They can't afford to lose ~28% of the mobile market.
Apple will follow suit: don't be taken in by the 'we love our customers' nonsense they like to present. They make billions in selling ads too, they just do it a little more quietly than Google.
Sadly the only real move the average person has to play in all of this is if they do this, refuse to use any site that blocks access or extensions based on it.
Go back to paying your property tax with checks, etc if you have to. But the only way to deal with these companies is being willing to go to whatever lengths are required to avoid using their products and services.
Which is of course way easier to say than do.
Abandon Chrome and Chromium en masse and this will go away. But normies suck.
This video is a really good explanation of why this is a horrible thing for the web.
Based on the post title, I was expecting some new revelation here, but it basically just explains everything that we already knew.
i don't quite get why can't the attester just.. lie.. about who he is like if I'm using firefox on linux, why cant my linux attester claim to be actually windows attester and say I'm using chrome?
Attestation depends on a few things:
If you're on iOS or Android, there's already strong OS level protections that a browser attestation can plugin to (like SafetyNet.)
~~Don’t be evil.~~
We had the dominance of Microsoft with IE back in the day. They made sure that the web was being kept back. Google is doing the same now, even though people have been shouting that they'd never do that. Here we are..
How would this affect our use of FediVerse websites? Like Lemmy or Mastodon.
Depends on the devs but I reckon they won't use the API.
I use Youtube a lot on Librewolf, which probably isn't going to be very trusted.. Hoping i don't get booted off of sites i usually use like YT. It was time to switch to Invidious anyway.
It was time to switch to Invidious anyway.
Which will stop working once this is implemented, since it doesn't use a trusted browser to access YT. As will any kind of automated access. Search engine bots, archive crawlers, third party apps... anything websites don't like or know won't be able to access them anymore.
