this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
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[–] Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social 148 points 11 months ago (11 children)

Sorry, best we can do is massive, expensive pseudo-luxury SUVs

[–] grayman@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't call Kia nor Hyundai nor Toyota nor Honda anything close to pseudo luxury. Has the bar been lowered because of all the plasticated electronics and DUAL ZONE AC?

[–] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 11 points 11 months ago (4 children)

There's quite a wide range within those brands. Is it safe to say that you would consider Lexus or Acura to be at least pseudo luxury? What about their entry models that are just a rebranded version of the Honda/Toyota model?

Hell, how do we even define luxury? You can get heated leather seats in just about anything these days, and a few decades ago those were both ultra premium options.

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[–] ceiphas@feddit.de 127 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You say that targetting only the top 5% restricts the adoption rate. Consider me shocked...

[–] harry_balzac@lemmy.world 45 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's almost as if consumers influence markets.

[–] blazera@kbin.social 35 points 11 months ago (20 children)

unfortunately we have to have a competing option to vote for with our wallets. There is not a single affordable EV available in the US.

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[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 15 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If we start with an expensive sports car we will make enough money that it will eventually trickle down to affordable vehicles.

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[–] eya@lemmy.dbzer0.com 71 points 11 months ago (25 children)

alternatively we could get rid of car dependency

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 57 points 11 months ago (11 children)

That's fine for people who live in cities (which I acknowledge is a lot of people), but for people who live in smaller more remote and more rural places, it will never be possible to fullly be free of personal vehicles.

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[–] Zink@programming.dev 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Maybe, but I feel like that ship has sailed in the US. Both for practical/economical reasons and because will resist. If half the people fought against wearing masks to protect vulnerable people from covid, good luck getting them to give up their "single family home with a yard + 2 cars” lifestyle. For those fortunate enough to have a single family home, that is.

I’m not saying it SHOULD be this way, and I’m not arguing against reducing cars with public transit and walkable/bikeable towns. However, from my perspective inside suburbia that borders rural areas, electrification of vehicles and supplying the grid with renewables is 1000x more likely as the path to fix this stuff environmentally.

And to get rid of cars for non-environmental reasons, I think that will be even more difficult. I mean, I visited Sweden earlier this year and for all the progressive stuff they’re way ahead of us on, there are still cars everywhere. They are smaller, more sensible cars with a much larger proportion being electric, but cars just the same.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We are screwed in the US because one side is actively and honestly against transit. The other side plays transit lip service but their actions prove they only want transit as a way to funnel money to some supporter (and so projects cost far too much and what we have runs bad schedules)

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[–] TheHotze@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Start small, support deregulating zoning so people can build more dense housing, and small corner shops in residential areas, that way it's not so far to go places. Support bike lanes so people can ride safely if they want to ride. Support work from home to prevent people from having to go anywhere in the first place.

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[–] FapFlop@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Think of the shareholders!

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[–] eronth@lemmy.world 60 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I just want more car options and less truck/SUV options

[–] JudahBenHur@lemm.ee 22 points 11 months ago (5 children)

hear hear.

I want to buy a honda plug-in hybrid.

they only make a fucking SUV plug-in hybrid.

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[–] LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 52 points 11 months ago (16 children)

This is exactly what I want, I don't need 300 miles of range, I don't need luxury entertainment systems. I need a simple vehicle with decently comfortable seats and a shitty Walmart $80 bluetooth head unit. In Europe and various parts of China / Japan you can get a small electric vehicle for like 8,000 US dollars and that's what I want here God damn it

[–] Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Honestly that would be great - make the head unit similar to a car from '07/'08 and then if we want to upgrade it wity something aftermarket, we can. Then we can choose what bells and whistles we want.

No autopilot, not internet connected BS. Heck I'd even go without adaptive cruise control and lane assist.

07/08 really was one of the best eras for car interior, because the head units weren't usually integrated into the dash, meaning you didn't have to replace trim pieces with your unit in order to upgrade the damned stereo.

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[–] rab@lemmy.ca 37 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Ya there's literally no way for poor people to buy EVs even if they wanted to. Another huge issue is poor people live in apartments and can't charge EVs at home either.

[–] Cylusthevirus@kbin.social 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If you're being fiscally responsible there's no way to buy most new cars. People are too used to living well above their means. How these Army recruits straight out of boot camp are dropping 80k on a truck that'll never even see a sheet of plywood or drywall assuming the bed is even big enough is beyond me.

I haven't paid more than 18k on a car and even that felt like too much. And I'm well above the median household income for my region.

Frankly I wish I didn't need a car at all, but it'll be decades before our infrastructure can support that lifestyle if ever. Unless you're willing to give up an additional 2 to 3 hours per day on travel ... and I'm not.

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[–] guacupado@lemmy.world 35 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The problem is they're also adding all this other shit that adds up costs. Just make a car, but it doesn't use gasoline. That's it.

[–] indigomirage@lemmy.ca 20 points 11 months ago (11 children)

I got a barebones Chevy Bolt. Simple car - absolutely perfect for the city at times when public transport isn't an option.

What's more - it has AndroidAuto/Carplay (mandatory in any future car purchase for me).

GM subsequently cancelled the model (though rumours say they'll bring it back?) and are building bigger cars instead. Ridiculous.

What we need is a smaller, practical EVs and a robust charging infrastructure. (especially in condos/rentals)

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[–] Tikiporch@lemmy.world 35 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We, the consumers, have also been saying that. Like, for a while.

[–] indigomirage@lemmy.ca 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yes - but a quick glance at the insane profit margins on large SUVs/trucks will tell you why this sadly hasn't happened.

Something's gotta give though...

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Og VW Beetle, but aluminum and EV please.

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[–] Shortbus@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I can't be the only one who has noticed the uptick in the negative EV press lately. Is this the same death throws akin to the buggy whip lobby of yore?

Edit* price needs to be attainable for the many for sure.. but the amount of negative press is "sus" (as the kids say)

[–] evranch@lemmy.ca 22 points 11 months ago

People are genuinely unimpressed with the high prices and low range numbers on what are supposed to be the next generation of vehicles. Volume and tech advancement were supposed to make them cheap and practical, but all that's gone up is the price.

Especially with talk of banning the sale of gas vehicles in the fairly near future, they are going to have to do a lot better than this or a lot of people are just going to end up without any vehicle at all.

Myself living in a rural, cold climate, 200km from any major center, nobody has made any practical vehicle for me yet. I even already own an EV, but it's really just a powerful golf cart. Once it gets much below freezing, I'm lucky to make it to a neighbour's place and back.

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[–] Sensitivezombie@lemmy.zip 25 points 11 months ago (4 children)

They are giving americans what they want. The real problem is continuing to feed the deep rooted car addiction brought on by lobbying and corporate greed. There has not been a better time to instead invest heavily on public transportation, build extension inter-state, inter-city train systems, subway or rail systems for cities. Overtime phasing out freeways and replacing them walkable districts. I understand this won't happen over night and cities like Houston and LA are sprawling cities of 100s of miles but it needs to start somewhere and it starts with heavy investment from the federal government. Time to finally invest the tax money back to the taxpayers not defense, wars (direct, proxy or funded) and foreign affairs in the name of "national security". How about domestic security from corporate greed, price gouging, poor education, horrible Healthcare are system, costly drug prices to say the least. I understand for all these there's need to be a massive social change booth in the country and in the world's largest retirement home, US Congress.

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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 21 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, cheaper and smaller cars across the board would be nice. Everything is a fucking tank now.

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[–] nbafantest@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Donald Trumps tariffs have been a disaster

There are great EVs out there but trump blocked them. We have all lost out

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[–] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Lithium ion battery technology is not a good fit with the type of vehicles we currently produce. The energy density is nowhere near fossil fuels and this implies a big battery, which also adds mass. By 2027, Land Rover and other makers of SUV will be nudging 3000kg for some of their models.

IMHO the only viable solution for li-ion is ultralight vehicles. Bicycles and Velomobiles are light enough to get decent range at speed. A bicycle used with integrated high speed rail would solve most of our commuting problems. The fact is, whether you are making tailpipe emissions or not, F=ma. Moving a 3t mass around for one person is always going to use an extravagant amount of energy and that energy has to come from somewhere.

Work from home, eat less meat, make fewer journeys, use a bike more often, make fewer children. Those are some things most of us can do.

[–] jabjoe@feddit.uk 13 points 11 months ago

Yes the energy density is less, but the efficiency is better. ICE wastes like 2/3 of that extra energy. Still has more, but 1/3 that you might think.

[–] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Blame the manufacturers and our obsession with driving land whales, not the batteries.

A Tesla Model 3 SR+ was almost the same weight as a Toyota Camry hybrid of similar shape and size.

EVs should weigh 2-300kg more at most

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[–] irotsoma@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Or, ya know, invest in battery tech so it's more convenient to charge cars and push for gas stations and parking lots to all have chargers.

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[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

That's actually what they did before the Tesla, and the result was the cars were so useless nobody wanted to buy them.
Most carmakers make small subcompact EVs, and they are way more useful now, but even Dacia Spring which is probably the cheapest European made EV, isn't competitive against similar sized or prized ICE cars. And frankly it's a very unattractive car in many ways IMO.
ICE cars have a century of iterations and optimizations on cost effective production and efficiency, it will take a while longer to get the EVs to the same level.
Batteries are getting both cheaper and better and safer, so there is no doubt EVs will ultimately surpass ICE in probably every segment.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 12 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Or people need to give up the idea of taking three tons of metal to work with them every day.

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[–] a9249@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Nissan leaf.... IS FIFTY GRAND?! +custom charger +shit range.... yeah I'll keep my 10yr old dino burning corolla mate.

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[–] Blademax@lemmy.one 10 points 11 months ago

Auto Dealers : (adds "Market Adjustment" $$$ to offset the cheaper EV prices...) "Hey, why no one buy EV? We need a bail out!"

/s

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