Pledge allegiance to the flag, but when did this country ever offer allegiance to us?
this post was submitted on 02 May 2026
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I'll pledge allegiance to the Constitution -- y'know, like politicians and judges do when they're sworn in to office. The flag hasn't even been the same damn thing for all 250 years.
Pledging allegiance to the flag means they expect you to blindly obey whoever is holding the flag. The rest is theater.
Growing up in England but consuming so much US media, these things stand out to me as utterly bizarre when I first learned about it or saw it myself:
- The pledge of allegiance (reminds me of North Korea documentaries)
- Flags everywhere on houses (don't you know what country you're in??)
- Singing the national anthem before domestic sports matches
- Picture of George W. Bush on the wall of the immigration office on the border with Canada, when I first visited with family (everyone in the world knows what your president looks like. This just reminded me of the dictator of Turkmenistan plastered all over their airport on a stopover, and videos of Iraq)
I think all federal buildings in the US have a photo of the President (and also, likely, the cabinet member who is in charge of whatever bureau you're in).
It might vary by state, but state government building will also usually have a photo of the Governor of said state (chief executive).
I'm not sure when that started... My guess would be either WW2, or Reagan
Similarly, US military buildings often have the entire chain of command's pictures posted, from the Commander in Chief down to the CO of that building
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Basically, there's an unspoken "rich people" after every important saying in America.
Pledge of Allegiance:
with liberty and justice for all [rich people].
Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men [who are rich] are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness [for rich people].
4th Amendment Text:
The right of the [rich] people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures
5th Amendment:
No [rich] person shall be . . . deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . . ..
6th Amendment text:
In all criminal prosecutions, the [rich] accused shall . . . and to have the Assistance of [good] Counsel for his defence.
Everything makes a whole lot of sense when looking at it through that lense.
I got suspended for 3 days in junior high for refusing to say the pledge. When asked why I said, "why should I pledge allegiance to this country and not some other country?". That did not go well with my homeroom teacher who was a veterans wife I guess. She argued people died for this country and I said people died because of this country and I don't think that's ok and I'm not swearing allegiance to any government body. I was 14 at the time and this was in 94. When I got back from suspension she want my homeroom teacher any longer. I found out her husband died while serving.
She argued people died for this country
People died for pretty much every country. That doesn't make this country special at all.
That was my first thought.
It’s okay to love a country, but do it the same way I love the street I grew up in, the park nearby, or the grocery store on the corner. I don’t think these are the best in the world or superior to others, but I know them well and they are meaningful to me because of the connection I built to them over the decades.
She argued people died for this country
More often killed for it than died for it.
So technically more people died for other countries and as this seems to be the benchmark for swearing allegiance to. We all should swear allegiance to the country that the most people have died for.
We all should swear allegiance to the country that the most people have died for.
Mongolia?
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I recently saw that the US military has a civilian-kill:soldier-death ratio of like 60:1 since Korea. Who has that high of a K:D ratio and still be at 0% wins?
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Its interesting that having a relative that "Died for this country" serves as a tool to further entrench nationalism.
Almost like it has its purpose by its own. Right?
Someone needed to explain to her that her husband died to protect you right to express your opinion, even if she didn't agree with it.
But not really. He probably died for no good reason at all, like Oil, or to "stop the spread of Communism." America seems to have no problem throwing as many lives down those two holes as they need to, and still never achieve whatever objectives they think they have.
I said almost exactly that in the ensuing argument.
did your parents back you up?
jw bc my mom gave me good lessons on authority and who should get respect and how. I had a couple "suspensions" that were really just a day off, once or twice she even took it off work to do something with me. I don't remember the exact scenarios now because they were pretty minor things, but I appreciate the way she handled it.
except that time I brought a knife to school to have a friend sharpen it at home. I understand why they wouldn't want knives there, and I broke that rule knowingly and after consideration.
also, lol @ suspensions in the first place. like what does that even accomplish? Oh no what am I going to do with the rest of the day and up to the next two days completely off, what a terrible time I'll have biking around town and playing video games. It's not like getting behind on classwork is an issue for that period of time when you're an easy A student who's never had the study and is going to have a hell of a time adjusting to post secondary.
They absolutely backed me up. My mom was and still is the same. She's distanced a lot of family because Trump but she never shows down.
It's like when they give cops paid suspension... Oh no, what will they do??
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One nation, indivisible...
Hold up, can we squeeze some division in there to make it clear we're not one nation?
Not one nation. One world.
We've altered the pledge before, pray we don't alter it further
The pledge of allegiance was to fight socialism, not encourage freedom.
Nah, you're misunderstanding it. Probably a regional accent that's confusing you. It's "liberty and justice for oil"
A country that blows hard about "freedom" and "democracy" shouldn't be making its kids take a loyalty oath every day.
Of all the many things that have always struck me as deeply disturbing about the USA, this one is pretty near the top of the list. It's fucking cult behaviour.
Yeah, there’s a lot of weird widely accepted propaganda.
i mean the whole "everyone is created equal" lie has been going on since the start of the whole country
written by a slave owner who was alienating human beings he forced to make nails of their unalienable rights
Liberty and justice for all who can afford it.
And have the right skin tone, religion, political alignment and sexual preferences. (*)
*Additional conditions may be added at a later date
"Oh yeah, let's remove that and add another 'under god' or some such."
I want a refund for all the time I wasted in school saying the pledge and learning about checks and balances.
Can we do a class action against Trump? HE OWES ME.
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those who can pay for it
Apparently we were supposed to outgrow it like belief in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy
From Sir Terry Pratchett:
All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING
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No, for whom.
I'm so sorry.
You know, I knew, and yet I didn't.
It's prescriptive vs. descriptive.
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they made you swear fealty to a piece of cloth. that cloth was supposed to be the ultimate arbiter of liberty and of justice. "all" is "everyone who is represented by the cloth" and ever since the cloth was first designed, it's been a limited few who've been represented by the cloth.
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For all (white people).
As a social experiment we should have a holidays were everyone dresses up as the same race and gender.
All is only the ones they consider to be people.
It evolved, for a while, but is swiftly regressing past where it was at the founding of this nation.
The pledge of allegiance translated into normal english:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
And for the oligarchy for which it stands one nation, under capitalism
indivisibly held together through an iron fist, with liberty and justice for some"
Liberty and protection from justice for the billionaires
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