Ask Lemmy

you're starting too far down the line

most vehicles nowadays are gimmicks

the real question is why can't we get a simple economical vehicle and not unrepairable subcription-based spyware on wheels with dangerous features, regardless of engine type

Show me a single non-EV car for sale that doesn't raise all the same objections

My FIL has a 2021 Smart ForFour EV that's as barebones as it gets. No screen, buttons and knobs for the climate control, popout rear windows AND an actual key you have to put into an actual hole.

It also looks like manufacturers are catching on and making EVs for normal people. Renault. Kia and Hyundai all have nice selections plus some of the Chinese models from Leap and BYD.

So it's definitely getting better on the EV front.

Actually your recipe for an electric car is what US manufacturers tried to do because it didn't require as much retooling. Turns out it is a pretty bad way to make an electric vehicle from scratch. The batteries are big and heavy and need their own space. The best place is in the bottom for weight distribution but instead they had to cram them in the existing engine compartment along with the motor. It's just not as good as designing it to be electric from the ground up. Most of them were compromised and thus didn't sell well.

Regarding the rolling data center, that's actually a different problem that applies to pretty much all new cars. There is a growing backlash against all of these features (and lack of buttons). Unfortunately, it kind of falls on deaf ears. I think this is why US manufacturers are scared of Chinese EVs. They take a more practical view of the vehicle. Although, I don't actually know how much spying these Chinese vehicles do. It wouldn't be like the Chinese to miss that opportunity.

OP is drinking the oil industry Kool Aid. All cars come with the same sensors and send the same data home. It has nothing to do with the engine.

We should have laws against it, but it certainly isn't limitteed to EVs.

I think that that's kind of a problem with almost all new cars, not just EVs.

Slate's a pretty stripped-down EV. It's got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_(vehicle)

No cell radio. Doesn't even have power windows in the base configuration; it comes with air conditioning and air bags and that's about it.

Note that the range is shorter than, say, a Tesla Model 3 or something.

These definitely exist. They are typically referred to as 'compliance cars' - i.e. the manufacturer is obligated, usually by regulations, to produce an EV, but they don't want to spend money designing a new platform for it - so they take an existing model, rip out the engine, cram a motor and batteries wherever they will fit and call it good. Examples: Volkswagen eGolf, Fiat 500e, Mercedes B Class EV. Ford Focus Electric...

However, doing this means you are constrained to the shape of the combustion vehicle it is based on. So the aerodynamics may not be optimal to get the best range, you may have a transmission tunnel taking up space in the interior that is no longer necessary, directly swapping the position of the engine and the motor/inverter means you lose the opportunity to repurpose the front of the car for additional storage - ultimately it ends up compromised in one way or another.

If on the other hand you design the platform from the ground up to handle an electric drivetrain then all of these points can be taken into account.

(And regarding cars in general becoming rolling computers: this is not an EV specific issue, unfortunately.)

Cars getting more expensive is in all car companies' interests.

Why are there no normal ~~electric~~ cars instead of gimicks on wheels? is probably the first question.

They do. Or least they sometimes do. I drive a Kia Soul EV. It’s… a Kia Soul with an electric motor and battery instead of all the internal combustion stuff.

So three issues.

An ICE drivetrain is a certain size and shape- you have a big lump of engine under the hood, a fat cigar of a transmission under the center of the car, a gas tank in the back, etc.
An EV drivetrain has a VERY DIFFERENT size and shape- the entire battery and drive system is essentially a skateboard on top of which you can build the rest of the car.

So you can't just take an ICE car and swap out the ICE for batteries and motor. The whole car needs a redesign. And if you're making the car for modern, tech-savvy buyers, why would you make a boring old low-tech car?

Second- EVERY car is turning into a rolling datacenter like a smartphone. Try to buy a base model car with no screen and manual windows or whatever- it doesn't exist anymore in many brands. Automakers go for the high profit items, and that's NOT the base models.

Third- a lot of the tech is now mandatory. Backup cameras, and soon driver attention monitoring among other things.

Sad thing is- I think there's a demand for it, if the price is right. If getting rid of most of the tech dropped $10-20k off the sticker price I think whoever tried it would sell millions. I'm not sure you're allowed to anymore though.

Mostly because they can. You really need to have everything automated anyway, you need at least a backup screen, so you might as well put it on that screen. It’s probably cheaper at that point to control everything by screen than to do install buttons

There’s still some hope

• https://www.slate.auto/en

Chinese companies are exporting basic EVs like you're talking about that sell for like $15k. Sadly if you're American you can't buy one because Freedom!!!