this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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I swear, half of the plays in the games I watch have a penalty. It just kills the flow of the game seeing a flag all the time, it feels like games back in the 00’s were not like this.

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[–] Meldreth@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Inverse is true. Don't reward shitty defenses for being beat. Qb throws a not accurate ball? Fuck it we can run through the wr to stop them. Lol be more accurate scrub. Like gtfo..

[–] rividz@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

It's the same every year. You need to accept that downfield pass interference penalties are a legitimate clutch strategy that works.

[–] DilligentBass@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Yup. But the penalties have been a problem for the last 3-4 years not just this one.

[–] Blazed_McDaniel@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

2009: 3669 penalties

2010: 3713 penalties

2011: 3896 penalties

2012: 3809 penalties

2013: 3635 penalties

2014: 4246 penalties

2015: 4326 penalties

2016: 4164 penalties

2017: 4166 penalties

2018: 4205 penalties

2019: 4278 penalties

2020: 3499 penalties (covid year)

2021: 3909 penalties (added a 17th game)

2022: 3726 penalties

2023: 2229 penalties on pace for 4012 (this on pace will vary a bit due to bye weeks for various teams)

Saw a sizable spike 2014-2019, but actually went down on averages the last few years while adding an extra week.

[–] pizza_822@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

way to bring logic and statistics into this

[–] Boukish@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

... Can we get that breakdown by type of penalty, though?

It really paints far more interesting contextual pictures about how referee calls are shaping the league at any given time.

For example, what's the trend on RTP and DPI and illegal contact and whatnot? These penalty rates impact the feel of the game far more than, e.g., ineligible receivers down the field.

[–] jfgiv@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure, I’ll do that for you in a few hours

[–] Boukish@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] jfgiv@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

bigggest takeaway for me: false start and defensive offside way down, dpi (and arguably defensive holding) up moderately, the rest holding steady at <5% of penalties called

fouls as share of total penalties by season

[–] jfgiv@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Sure, I’ll do that for you in a few hours

I will say that the share of first downs achieved by penalty is similarly pretty stable

edit: busy as hell, and hitting the character limit so i'll split into increases and decreases, but here you go, sorted by highest increase to smallest increase (decreases in child comment)

penalty_type 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 Slope r^2
Neutral Zone Infraction 0.59% 0.52% 0.85% 0.94% 1.26% 1.08% 0.81% 1.18% 1.51% 1.57% 1.79% 2.29% 3.62% 3.55% 3.90% 3.52% 4.64% 3.41% 3.69% 4.16% 4.70% 5.36% 3.52% 2.71% 3.08% +0.17% 0.7198
Defensive Holding 3.83% 5.05% 3.71% 3.80% 4.53% 4.13% 5.33% 4.21% 2.84% 4.36% 3.47% 3.26% 3.77% 4.49% 5.47% 6.39% 6.14% 6.00% 6.94% 6.95% 7.08% 5.85% 4.86% 6.93% 6.00% +0.12% 0.4888
Unnecessary Roughness 4.33% 3.84% 3.00% 3.92% 4.26% 3.14% 2.88% 4.41% 4.24% 5.33% 4.43% 5.26% 5.78% 6.79% 8.70% 6.21% 6.47% 5.68% 5.83% 5.99% 4.52% 5.57% 4.98% 5.11% 5.29% +0.10% 0.3082
Defensive Pass Interference 8.35% 8.08% 7.73% 7.23% 6.63% 5.01% 5.36% 5.36% 5.03% 5.47% 5.85% 6.27% 6.24% 7.57% 7.68% 6.09% 6.53% 8.12% 7.82% 6.89% 7.80% 10.72% 9.34% 7.39% 8.86% +0.08% 0.1901
Defensive Too Many Men on Field 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 1.22% 0.87% 1.08% 1.09% 1.35% 1.03% +0.05% 0.5435
Roughing the Passer 2.06% 2.41% 2.72% 3.04% 3.21% 3.62% 3.12% 3.13% 1.98% 1.99% 2.18% 2.78% 3.04% 2.90% 2.85% 2.93% 2.86% 2.47% 3.10% 3.31% 3.89% 4.25% 4.64% 3.00% 3.51% +0.05% 0.284
Ineligible Downfield Pass 0.44% 0.68% 0.42% 0.40% 0.48% 0.34% 0.38% 0.20% 0.79% 0.80% 0.89% 0.23% 0.30% 0.16% 0.29% 0.71% 0.48% 0.58% 0.41% 0.46% 1.10% 0.77% 1.34% 2.77% 1.89% +0.04% 0.3182
Offensive Holding 19.54% 20.10% 18.36% 19.73% 20.05% 17.10% 18.87% 15.56% 16.87% 16.38% 17.75% 19.57% 18.35% 19.63% 18.08% 18.57% 20.21% 20.41% 19.41% 20.69% 20.85% 15.98% 20.42% 19.60% 18.64% +0.04% 0.0353
Illegal Formation 0.69% 1.08% 1.20% 0.88% 0.39% 1.50% 1.48% 1.51% 1.61% 1.99% 1.85% 2.00% 1.46% 1.25% 1.89% 1.24% 1.67% 1.89% 1.32% 2.09% 1.83% 1.64% 2.02% 1.62% 1.94% +0.04% 0.4155
Illegal Use of Hands 1.99% 2.77% 1.73% 2.13% 2.16% 1.61% 1.64% 1.55% 0.72% 0.98% 1.22% 1.26% 2.22% 2.49% 2.37% 4.85% 3.31% 2.59% 3.16% 2.06% 2.78% 1.67% 2.33% 1.81% 1.89% +0.03% 0.0643
Horse Collar Tackle 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.74% 0.88% 0.75% 0.96% 0.50% 0.37% 0.58% 0.61% 0.41% 0.55% 0.73% 0.50% 0.33% 0.32% +0.03% 0.4132
Offensive Pass Interference 2.46% 2.12% 2.15% 1.43% 2.04% 1.73% 1.88% 2.01% 1.75% 2.23% 2.48% 2.26% 2.07% 2.37% 1.95% 3.02% 2.91% 2.56% 3.37% 2.47% 2.84% 2.16% 2.43% 2.01% 2.16% +0.03% 0.1939
Illegal Blindside Block 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.17% 0.06% 0.06% 0.28% 0.10% 0.33% 0.28% 0.09% 0.32% 0.20% 0.87% 0.49% 0.34% 0.36% 0.43% +0.02% 0.6034
Illegal Shift 0.72% 0.36% 0.49% 0.64% 0.48% 0.68% 0.57% 0.66% 0.89% 0.49% 0.66% 0.61% 0.76% 0.56% 0.83% 0.50% 0.93% 0.96% 0.67% 1.28% 1.16% 0.80% 0.78% 0.89% 1.13% +0.02% 0.4566
Lowering the Head to Initiate Contact 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.49% 0.84% 1.18% 0.34% 0.00% 0.00% +0.02% 0.2114
Delay of Game 4.67% 4.37% 3.88% 3.53% 3.27% 3.45% 3.55% 3.03% 5.48% 4.71% 4.17% 4.43% 3.83% 3.99% 4.54% 4.14% 4.10% 4.05% 3.66% 3.31% 3.51% 4.14% 5.01% 5.21% 4.48% +0.02% 0.0459
Offensive Too Many Men on Field 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.06% 0.17% 0.38% 0.28% 0.28% 0.53% 0.22% +0.01% 0.5038
Disqualification 0.09% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.09% 0.08% 0.00% 0.03% 0.03% 0.03% 0.10% 0.10% 0.24% 0.09% 0.13% 0.12% 0.06% 0.17% 0.18% 0.26% 0.32% 0.59% 0.12% 0.26% 0.32% +0.01% 0.5134
Player Out of Bounds on Kick 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.20% 0.15% 0.28% 0.19% 0.40% 0.22% +0.01% 0.518
Taunting 0.03% 0.16% 0.49% 0.79% 0.81% 1.13% 0.27% 0.72% 0.31% 0.31% 0.23% 0.26% 0.40% 0.19% 0.90% 0.71% 0.71% 0.90% 0.50% 0.70% 0.26% 0.35% 1.34% 0.56% 0.49% +0.01% 0.0529
Illegal Double-Team Block 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.46% 0.38% 0.31% 0.07% 0.05% +0.01% 0.2603
Low Block 0.09% 0.13% 0.04% 0.03% 0.18% 0.34% 0.19% 0.07% 0.24% 0.35% 0.23% 0.19% 0.15% 0.28% 0.22% 0.18% 0.11% 0.06% 0.15% 0.06% 0.03% 0.00% 0.50% 0.40% 0.27% +0.00% 0.0494
Unsportsmanlike Conduct 1.56% 1.01% 1.06% 1.16% 0.57% 0.79% 0.81% 1.84% 1.64% 1.57% 1.55% 1.36% 1.67% 1.12% 1.50% 1.83% 1.92% 1.86% 1.99% 1.39% 0.90% 0.84% 0.96% 1.06% 0.92% +0.00% 0.004
Leverage 0.06% 0.03% 0.18% 0.12% 0.06% 0.11% 0.03% 0.03% 0.07% 0.07% 0.00% 0.06% 0.09% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.35% 0.29% 0.17% 0.03% 0.03% 0.16% 0.07% 0.22% +0.00% 0.0655
Kick Catch Interference 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.15% 0.17% 0.03% 0.06% 0.00% 0.05% +0.00% 0.2427
Lowering the Head to Make Forcible Contact 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.27% +0.00% 0.1154
Roughing the Kicker 0.06% 0.10% 0.18% 0.24% 0.18% 0.14% 0.11% 0.23% 0.21% 0.10% 0.07% 0.10% 0.24% 0.19% 0.10% 0.18% 0.06% 0.35% 0.03% 0.23% 0.23% 0.24% 0.28% 0.16% 0.05% +0.00% 0.0321
Player Out of Bounds on Punt 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.15% 0.08% 0.16% 0.03% 0.17% 0.07% 0.17% 0.19% 0.40% 0.56% 0.45% 0.24% 0.34% 0.17% 0.26% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% +0.00% 0.0033
Illegal Peelback 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.03% 0.00% 0.13% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.09% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.05% +0.00% 0.0716
Delay of Kickoff 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.07% 0.00% +0.00% 0.0848
Illegal Wedge 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.16% 0.00% 0.06% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% +0.00% 0.0068
Illegal Kick/Kicking Loose Ball 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.00% +0.00% 0.097
Leaping 0.06% 0.00% 0.00% 0.03% 0.03% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.06% 0.03% 0.00% 0.00% 0.11% 0.09% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.05% +0.00% 0.0004
[–] SteelBrightblade1@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Boukish@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Roughing the passer.

More rarely, roughing the punter or kicker.

[–] FreddieFunkhouser@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

this doesn't mean anything bc the issue is the type of penalty

way more calls that require the refs to stand around and conference, wasting time and slowing the game down

somebody will say 'well akshually the games are shorter' no they gave up on some of those between play commercial breaks and started inserting ads into the 'down time' of games

[–] jfgiv@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

really hasn't been that pronounced even in the usual suspects of "game's gotten soft":

Season Defensive Pass Interference Defensive Holding Roughing the Passer Unnecessary Roughness
1999 1.09 0.50 0.27 0.56
2000 1.01 0.63 0.30 0.48
2001 0.88 0.42 0.31 0.34
2002 0.93 0.49 0.39 0.50
2003 0.86 0.59 0.42 0.55
2004 0.69 0.57 0.50 0.43
2005 0.78 0.77 0.45 0.42
2006 0.64 0.50 0.37 0.52
2007 0.57 0.32 0.23 0.48
2008 0.61 0.49 0.22 0.60
2009 0.69 0.41 0.26 0.52
2010 0.76 0.39 0.34 0.64
2011 0.80 0.48 0.39 0.74
2012 0.95 0.56 0.36 0.85
2013 0.94 0.67 0.35 1.06
2014 0.80 0.84 0.39 0.82
2015 0.90 0.85 0.39 0.89
2016 1.09 0.80 0.33 0.76
2017 1.04 0.93 0.41 0.78
2018 0.93 0.93 0.45 0.80
2019 1.05 0.95 0.52 0.61
2020 1.20 0.66 0.48 0.63
2021 1.10 0.57 0.55 0.59
2022 0.83 0.77 0.34 0.57
2023 1.09 0.74 0.43 0.65

We're talking about an extra defensive holding every five games. an extra roughing the passer every eight.

[–] Charrgerrr@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

It's awesome that you put the effort into this and the other data below. But it's sad because the people like OP and others in this thread will ignore it entirely

[–] atomik71@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

This year just seems like the refs think they’re the stars of the game and seem to be inserting themselves more and more into the games. There are several games this year that I genuinely question the validity of because of the refs’ actions towards the end of the game.

[–] careless_swiggin@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

broncos had double the bills penalties and the records of penalties come from the distant past

[–] ryanino@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No but the Jets offense being historically bad has drove me to become slightly disinterested

[–] ghigoli@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

you guys spent Aaron Rodgers money without any Aaron Rodgers..

i feel bad bro, you guys should ask for a refund.

[–] notmyplantaccount@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I enjoy this subreddit much less than years prior due to the number of posts about penalties.

[–] ghigoli@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

i've noticed refs missing some penalties tbh. they should be throwing the flag more but this year is a complete discipline issue across the board because many teams as new asf with players and backups so more penalties will happen.

this still wasn't as bad as the mid 10's years where their were just constant fights.

[–] bzl33@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah, I enjoy it less as a casual fan because there are fewer marquee games for some reason. Maybe the 2nd half will have more. As a 49ers fan, it's the same level of enjoyment. Maybe I'm getting older though too, unfortunately or fortunately I have more interests outside of spending Sunday/Monday watching football. Although this weekend and Monday I caught a bunch of games lol.

[–] SocialDistanceMedia@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I live in Arizona so now that the oppressive summer heat is finally over, I'm trying to spend weekends outdoors. Watching the NFL is a lower priority in my life, though I do enjoy a lazy Sunday watching Redzone from time to time.

But this year I admit the non marquee games between terrible teams has been far more amusing than expected. Sometimes it's the shitshow games that provide the most entertainment. Jets & Raiders (second half anyhow) was a good example of it. The drama for games like that turns into "How will Zach Wilson fail his team tonight?"

[–] Headlesshorsman02@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah basketball is starting to feel that way a bit as well near the end of games it feels like the 4th quarter takes 30 minutes by itself

[–] jvanber@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Considering that 17 games are played now, the penalties are about the same as compared to most 16-game seasons.

Used to watch every game on Sunday. Now I just watch the eagles, and the playoffs. Every game feels like a slog. Penalties are part of it but it’s mainly commercials

[–] AlabasterRadio@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The Raiders are one of the 4 least penalized teams in the NFL for the first time, maybe ever. So no.

[–] mill_about_smartly@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I'm watching less because life is just busier. I might catch the whole Dallas game, but 0 chance I'm watching any other full games.

They're too damn long, and penalties are a small part of that, but it's also just inherent in the broadcast at this point.

[–] Beahner@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Yes. Yes yes yes.

It’s not just the nonsensical penalties each game, it’s a couple of things for me.

But the penalties and the way it seems to gear a game is at the top of the list. I paid for nfl+ to get red zone and use that most weekends as background noise. Other than that I only watch my team. And even if I can’t get the game locally I don’t go looking for it. I just watch the condensed game later. Something like this would have been unheard of for me even 5 years ago.

I actually cheer the (pointless) hope that ratings tank so badly that they realize they have to stop being so arrogant and fix the game. But, I remember many who “quit” the game years ago over politics and thought that was going to show em….and it so didn’t.

So, this is kind of what the game is becoming.

I’ve matured a lot and don’t buy into conspiracy much anymore, but the fact that the league registered their business as an entertainment company and not a sport does keep tickling my tin foil antenna.

[–] mkk4@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I grew up watching the NFL in the very early 80's; compared to then, football is a different game, with different rules, with different officiating, which has created imo a bad poor quality product that is less entertaining and can't be counted on to appear fair, impartial, consistent, logical and simple while using common sense and reason.

This is a problem that I also feel is destroying the NBA and professional boxing.

I also don't trust MLB home plate umpires to call a reasonable and consistent strike zone which really kills my enthusiasm, entertainment, excitement, and sometimes ruins my enjoyment and experience as a fan during Tigers games but that is my only real gripe with MLB.

[–] Kohakuho@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

For me it hasn't been the same since the Covid season. Nowadays I mostly just watch the Packers. The NFL has been increasingly feeling a bit sterile and corporate.

[–] 1998_2009_2016@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

There are noticeably fewer penalties than a few years ago.

[–] belizeanheat@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

First year watching?

[–] fckmetotears@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

It’s more so the ads than the penalties

[–] Manawah@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I’m enjoying this season much less than normal but due to bad televised matchups, not penalties. The NFCE bores the hell out of me and we get a game of them per week in primetime. The Jets seem to have the max amount of primetime slots. TNF is always bad but I’ve skipped 2-3 SNF games this year, and I don’t know if I’ve ever done that by choice before this season. Just this past Sunday I believe 4-5 games ended by an FG margin and i didn’t have any of them televised in my area. Additionally, I hate the Europe games. Apparently my limit is 11 hours of football a day and 14 is too much for me.

[–] owlwise13@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I have slowly been watching a lot less football these last several years. I'm tired of the trash talking on social media by players and fans. Obviously bad officiating for the last decade, and the NFL refusing to fix it. It's not even the number of penalties, but the inconstancy of it. The constant squeezing more money out of me just to watch it on TV. Plus the lack of player development. Now with gambling being sanctioned, I expect a major gambling scandal any day now. It seems like the current crop of owners only care about money.

[–] Gorbax50@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

“DAE think the whole league sucks now and is in decline because my team is bad this year?”

[–] bayonetworking123@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Seems like far fewer but stupider penalties

[–] TheAstroChemist@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

No but the amount of advertisements has become unbearable to the extent that I really only enjoy watching RedZone now. We’ll be right back after a word from [fill in brand] — whilst in split screen during a 30 second timeout. They might as well just show ads nonstop like that.

[–] Airrows@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago
[–] Certain_Home8475@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

You’re just getting older man.. embrace the depression.