Inverse is true. Don't reward shitty defenses for being beat. Qb throws a not accurate ball? Fuck it we can run through the wr to stop them. Lol be more accurate scrub. Like gtfo..
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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It's the same every year. You need to accept that downfield pass interference penalties are a legitimate clutch strategy that works.
Yup. But the penalties have been a problem for the last 3-4 years not just this one.
2009: 3669 penalties
2010: 3713 penalties
2011: 3896 penalties
2012: 3809 penalties
2013: 3635 penalties
2014: 4246 penalties
2015: 4326 penalties
2016: 4164 penalties
2017: 4166 penalties
2018: 4205 penalties
2019: 4278 penalties
2020: 3499 penalties (covid year)
2021: 3909 penalties (added a 17th game)
2022: 3726 penalties
2023: 2229 penalties on pace for 4012 (this on pace will vary a bit due to bye weeks for various teams)
Saw a sizable spike 2014-2019, but actually went down on averages the last few years while adding an extra week.
way to bring logic and statistics into this
... Can we get that breakdown by type of penalty, though?
It really paints far more interesting contextual pictures about how referee calls are shaping the league at any given time.
For example, what's the trend on RTP and DPI and illegal contact and whatnot? These penalty rates impact the feel of the game far more than, e.g., ineligible receivers down the field.
Sure, I’ll do that for you in a few hours
You're a G
bigggest takeaway for me: false start and defensive offside way down, dpi (and arguably defensive holding) up moderately, the rest holding steady at <5% of penalties called
Sure, I’ll do that for you in a few hours
I will say that the share of first downs achieved by penalty is similarly pretty stable
edit: busy as hell, and hitting the character limit so i'll split into increases and decreases, but here you go, sorted by highest increase to smallest increase (decreases in child comment)
| penalty_type | 1999 | 2000 | 2001 | 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 | 2023 | Slope | r^2 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Neutral Zone Infraction | 0.59% | 0.52% | 0.85% | 0.94% | 1.26% | 1.08% | 0.81% | 1.18% | 1.51% | 1.57% | 1.79% | 2.29% | 3.62% | 3.55% | 3.90% | 3.52% | 4.64% | 3.41% | 3.69% | 4.16% | 4.70% | 5.36% | 3.52% | 2.71% | 3.08% | +0.17% | 0.7198 |
| Defensive Holding | 3.83% | 5.05% | 3.71% | 3.80% | 4.53% | 4.13% | 5.33% | 4.21% | 2.84% | 4.36% | 3.47% | 3.26% | 3.77% | 4.49% | 5.47% | 6.39% | 6.14% | 6.00% | 6.94% | 6.95% | 7.08% | 5.85% | 4.86% | 6.93% | 6.00% | +0.12% | 0.4888 |
| Unnecessary Roughness | 4.33% | 3.84% | 3.00% | 3.92% | 4.26% | 3.14% | 2.88% | 4.41% | 4.24% | 5.33% | 4.43% | 5.26% | 5.78% | 6.79% | 8.70% | 6.21% | 6.47% | 5.68% | 5.83% | 5.99% | 4.52% | 5.57% | 4.98% | 5.11% | 5.29% | +0.10% | 0.3082 |
| Defensive Pass Interference | 8.35% | 8.08% | 7.73% | 7.23% | 6.63% | 5.01% | 5.36% | 5.36% | 5.03% | 5.47% | 5.85% | 6.27% | 6.24% | 7.57% | 7.68% | 6.09% | 6.53% | 8.12% | 7.82% | 6.89% | 7.80% | 10.72% | 9.34% | 7.39% | 8.86% | +0.08% | 0.1901 |
| Defensive Too Many Men on Field | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 1.22% | 0.87% | 1.08% | 1.09% | 1.35% | 1.03% | +0.05% | 0.5435 |
| Roughing the Passer | 2.06% | 2.41% | 2.72% | 3.04% | 3.21% | 3.62% | 3.12% | 3.13% | 1.98% | 1.99% | 2.18% | 2.78% | 3.04% | 2.90% | 2.85% | 2.93% | 2.86% | 2.47% | 3.10% | 3.31% | 3.89% | 4.25% | 4.64% | 3.00% | 3.51% | +0.05% | 0.284 |
| Ineligible Downfield Pass | 0.44% | 0.68% | 0.42% | 0.40% | 0.48% | 0.34% | 0.38% | 0.20% | 0.79% | 0.80% | 0.89% | 0.23% | 0.30% | 0.16% | 0.29% | 0.71% | 0.48% | 0.58% | 0.41% | 0.46% | 1.10% | 0.77% | 1.34% | 2.77% | 1.89% | +0.04% | 0.3182 |
| Offensive Holding | 19.54% | 20.10% | 18.36% | 19.73% | 20.05% | 17.10% | 18.87% | 15.56% | 16.87% | 16.38% | 17.75% | 19.57% | 18.35% | 19.63% | 18.08% | 18.57% | 20.21% | 20.41% | 19.41% | 20.69% | 20.85% | 15.98% | 20.42% | 19.60% | 18.64% | +0.04% | 0.0353 |
| Illegal Formation | 0.69% | 1.08% | 1.20% | 0.88% | 0.39% | 1.50% | 1.48% | 1.51% | 1.61% | 1.99% | 1.85% | 2.00% | 1.46% | 1.25% | 1.89% | 1.24% | 1.67% | 1.89% | 1.32% | 2.09% | 1.83% | 1.64% | 2.02% | 1.62% | 1.94% | +0.04% | 0.4155 |
| Illegal Use of Hands | 1.99% | 2.77% | 1.73% | 2.13% | 2.16% | 1.61% | 1.64% | 1.55% | 0.72% | 0.98% | 1.22% | 1.26% | 2.22% | 2.49% | 2.37% | 4.85% | 3.31% | 2.59% | 3.16% | 2.06% | 2.78% | 1.67% | 2.33% | 1.81% | 1.89% | +0.03% | 0.0643 |
| Horse Collar Tackle | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.74% | 0.88% | 0.75% | 0.96% | 0.50% | 0.37% | 0.58% | 0.61% | 0.41% | 0.55% | 0.73% | 0.50% | 0.33% | 0.32% | +0.03% | 0.4132 |
| Offensive Pass Interference | 2.46% | 2.12% | 2.15% | 1.43% | 2.04% | 1.73% | 1.88% | 2.01% | 1.75% | 2.23% | 2.48% | 2.26% | 2.07% | 2.37% | 1.95% | 3.02% | 2.91% | 2.56% | 3.37% | 2.47% | 2.84% | 2.16% | 2.43% | 2.01% | 2.16% | +0.03% | 0.1939 |
| Illegal Blindside Block | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.17% | 0.06% | 0.06% | 0.28% | 0.10% | 0.33% | 0.28% | 0.09% | 0.32% | 0.20% | 0.87% | 0.49% | 0.34% | 0.36% | 0.43% | +0.02% | 0.6034 |
| Illegal Shift | 0.72% | 0.36% | 0.49% | 0.64% | 0.48% | 0.68% | 0.57% | 0.66% | 0.89% | 0.49% | 0.66% | 0.61% | 0.76% | 0.56% | 0.83% | 0.50% | 0.93% | 0.96% | 0.67% | 1.28% | 1.16% | 0.80% | 0.78% | 0.89% | 1.13% | +0.02% | 0.4566 |
| Lowering the Head to Initiate Contact | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.49% | 0.84% | 1.18% | 0.34% | 0.00% | 0.00% | +0.02% | 0.2114 |
| Delay of Game | 4.67% | 4.37% | 3.88% | 3.53% | 3.27% | 3.45% | 3.55% | 3.03% | 5.48% | 4.71% | 4.17% | 4.43% | 3.83% | 3.99% | 4.54% | 4.14% | 4.10% | 4.05% | 3.66% | 3.31% | 3.51% | 4.14% | 5.01% | 5.21% | 4.48% | +0.02% | 0.0459 |
| Offensive Too Many Men on Field | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.06% | 0.17% | 0.38% | 0.28% | 0.28% | 0.53% | 0.22% | +0.01% | 0.5038 |
| Disqualification | 0.09% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.09% | 0.08% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.10% | 0.10% | 0.24% | 0.09% | 0.13% | 0.12% | 0.06% | 0.17% | 0.18% | 0.26% | 0.32% | 0.59% | 0.12% | 0.26% | 0.32% | +0.01% | 0.5134 |
| Player Out of Bounds on Kick | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.20% | 0.15% | 0.28% | 0.19% | 0.40% | 0.22% | +0.01% | 0.518 |
| Taunting | 0.03% | 0.16% | 0.49% | 0.79% | 0.81% | 1.13% | 0.27% | 0.72% | 0.31% | 0.31% | 0.23% | 0.26% | 0.40% | 0.19% | 0.90% | 0.71% | 0.71% | 0.90% | 0.50% | 0.70% | 0.26% | 0.35% | 1.34% | 0.56% | 0.49% | +0.01% | 0.0529 |
| Illegal Double-Team Block | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.46% | 0.38% | 0.31% | 0.07% | 0.05% | +0.01% | 0.2603 |
| Low Block | 0.09% | 0.13% | 0.04% | 0.03% | 0.18% | 0.34% | 0.19% | 0.07% | 0.24% | 0.35% | 0.23% | 0.19% | 0.15% | 0.28% | 0.22% | 0.18% | 0.11% | 0.06% | 0.15% | 0.06% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.50% | 0.40% | 0.27% | +0.00% | 0.0494 |
| Unsportsmanlike Conduct | 1.56% | 1.01% | 1.06% | 1.16% | 0.57% | 0.79% | 0.81% | 1.84% | 1.64% | 1.57% | 1.55% | 1.36% | 1.67% | 1.12% | 1.50% | 1.83% | 1.92% | 1.86% | 1.99% | 1.39% | 0.90% | 0.84% | 0.96% | 1.06% | 0.92% | +0.00% | 0.004 |
| Leverage | 0.06% | 0.03% | 0.18% | 0.12% | 0.06% | 0.11% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.07% | 0.07% | 0.00% | 0.06% | 0.09% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.35% | 0.29% | 0.17% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.16% | 0.07% | 0.22% | +0.00% | 0.0655 |
| Kick Catch Interference | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.15% | 0.17% | 0.03% | 0.06% | 0.00% | 0.05% | +0.00% | 0.2427 |
| Lowering the Head to Make Forcible Contact | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.27% | +0.00% | 0.1154 |
| Roughing the Kicker | 0.06% | 0.10% | 0.18% | 0.24% | 0.18% | 0.14% | 0.11% | 0.23% | 0.21% | 0.10% | 0.07% | 0.10% | 0.24% | 0.19% | 0.10% | 0.18% | 0.06% | 0.35% | 0.03% | 0.23% | 0.23% | 0.24% | 0.28% | 0.16% | 0.05% | +0.00% | 0.0321 |
| Player Out of Bounds on Punt | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.15% | 0.08% | 0.16% | 0.03% | 0.17% | 0.07% | 0.17% | 0.19% | 0.40% | 0.56% | 0.45% | 0.24% | 0.34% | 0.17% | 0.26% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | +0.00% | 0.0033 |
| Illegal Peelback | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.13% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.09% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.05% | +0.00% | 0.0716 |
| Delay of Kickoff | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.07% | 0.00% | +0.00% | 0.0848 |
| Illegal Wedge | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.16% | 0.00% | 0.06% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | +0.00% | 0.0068 |
| Illegal Kick/Kicking Loose Ball | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.00% | +0.00% | 0.097 |
| Leaping | 0.06% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.06% | 0.03% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.11% | 0.09% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.00% | 0.05% | +0.00% | 0.0004 |
What is rtp
Roughing the passer.
More rarely, roughing the punter or kicker.
this doesn't mean anything bc the issue is the type of penalty
way more calls that require the refs to stand around and conference, wasting time and slowing the game down
somebody will say 'well akshually the games are shorter' no they gave up on some of those between play commercial breaks and started inserting ads into the 'down time' of games
really hasn't been that pronounced even in the usual suspects of "game's gotten soft":
| Season | Defensive Pass Interference | Defensive Holding | Roughing the Passer | Unnecessary Roughness |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1999 | 1.09 | 0.50 | 0.27 | 0.56 |
| 2000 | 1.01 | 0.63 | 0.30 | 0.48 |
| 2001 | 0.88 | 0.42 | 0.31 | 0.34 |
| 2002 | 0.93 | 0.49 | 0.39 | 0.50 |
| 2003 | 0.86 | 0.59 | 0.42 | 0.55 |
| 2004 | 0.69 | 0.57 | 0.50 | 0.43 |
| 2005 | 0.78 | 0.77 | 0.45 | 0.42 |
| 2006 | 0.64 | 0.50 | 0.37 | 0.52 |
| 2007 | 0.57 | 0.32 | 0.23 | 0.48 |
| 2008 | 0.61 | 0.49 | 0.22 | 0.60 |
| 2009 | 0.69 | 0.41 | 0.26 | 0.52 |
| 2010 | 0.76 | 0.39 | 0.34 | 0.64 |
| 2011 | 0.80 | 0.48 | 0.39 | 0.74 |
| 2012 | 0.95 | 0.56 | 0.36 | 0.85 |
| 2013 | 0.94 | 0.67 | 0.35 | 1.06 |
| 2014 | 0.80 | 0.84 | 0.39 | 0.82 |
| 2015 | 0.90 | 0.85 | 0.39 | 0.89 |
| 2016 | 1.09 | 0.80 | 0.33 | 0.76 |
| 2017 | 1.04 | 0.93 | 0.41 | 0.78 |
| 2018 | 0.93 | 0.93 | 0.45 | 0.80 |
| 2019 | 1.05 | 0.95 | 0.52 | 0.61 |
| 2020 | 1.20 | 0.66 | 0.48 | 0.63 |
| 2021 | 1.10 | 0.57 | 0.55 | 0.59 |
| 2022 | 0.83 | 0.77 | 0.34 | 0.57 |
| 2023 | 1.09 | 0.74 | 0.43 | 0.65 |
We're talking about an extra defensive holding every five games. an extra roughing the passer every eight.
It's awesome that you put the effort into this and the other data below. But it's sad because the people like OP and others in this thread will ignore it entirely
This year just seems like the refs think they’re the stars of the game and seem to be inserting themselves more and more into the games. There are several games this year that I genuinely question the validity of because of the refs’ actions towards the end of the game.
broncos had double the bills penalties and the records of penalties come from the distant past
No but the Jets offense being historically bad has drove me to become slightly disinterested
you guys spent Aaron Rodgers money without any Aaron Rodgers..
i feel bad bro, you guys should ask for a refund.
I enjoy this subreddit much less than years prior due to the number of posts about penalties.
i've noticed refs missing some penalties tbh. they should be throwing the flag more but this year is a complete discipline issue across the board because many teams as new asf with players and backups so more penalties will happen.
this still wasn't as bad as the mid 10's years where their were just constant fights.
Nah, I enjoy it less as a casual fan because there are fewer marquee games for some reason. Maybe the 2nd half will have more. As a 49ers fan, it's the same level of enjoyment. Maybe I'm getting older though too, unfortunately or fortunately I have more interests outside of spending Sunday/Monday watching football. Although this weekend and Monday I caught a bunch of games lol.
I live in Arizona so now that the oppressive summer heat is finally over, I'm trying to spend weekends outdoors. Watching the NFL is a lower priority in my life, though I do enjoy a lazy Sunday watching Redzone from time to time.
But this year I admit the non marquee games between terrible teams has been far more amusing than expected. Sometimes it's the shitshow games that provide the most entertainment. Jets & Raiders (second half anyhow) was a good example of it. The drama for games like that turns into "How will Zach Wilson fail his team tonight?"
Yeah basketball is starting to feel that way a bit as well near the end of games it feels like the 4th quarter takes 30 minutes by itself
Considering that 17 games are played now, the penalties are about the same as compared to most 16-game seasons.
Used to watch every game on Sunday. Now I just watch the eagles, and the playoffs. Every game feels like a slog. Penalties are part of it but it’s mainly commercials
The Raiders are one of the 4 least penalized teams in the NFL for the first time, maybe ever. So no.
I'm watching less because life is just busier. I might catch the whole Dallas game, but 0 chance I'm watching any other full games.
They're too damn long, and penalties are a small part of that, but it's also just inherent in the broadcast at this point.
Yes. Yes yes yes.
It’s not just the nonsensical penalties each game, it’s a couple of things for me.
But the penalties and the way it seems to gear a game is at the top of the list. I paid for nfl+ to get red zone and use that most weekends as background noise. Other than that I only watch my team. And even if I can’t get the game locally I don’t go looking for it. I just watch the condensed game later. Something like this would have been unheard of for me even 5 years ago.
I actually cheer the (pointless) hope that ratings tank so badly that they realize they have to stop being so arrogant and fix the game. But, I remember many who “quit” the game years ago over politics and thought that was going to show em….and it so didn’t.
So, this is kind of what the game is becoming.
I’ve matured a lot and don’t buy into conspiracy much anymore, but the fact that the league registered their business as an entertainment company and not a sport does keep tickling my tin foil antenna.
I grew up watching the NFL in the very early 80's; compared to then, football is a different game, with different rules, with different officiating, which has created imo a bad poor quality product that is less entertaining and can't be counted on to appear fair, impartial, consistent, logical and simple while using common sense and reason.
This is a problem that I also feel is destroying the NBA and professional boxing.
I also don't trust MLB home plate umpires to call a reasonable and consistent strike zone which really kills my enthusiasm, entertainment, excitement, and sometimes ruins my enjoyment and experience as a fan during Tigers games but that is my only real gripe with MLB.
For me it hasn't been the same since the Covid season. Nowadays I mostly just watch the Packers. The NFL has been increasingly feeling a bit sterile and corporate.
There are noticeably fewer penalties than a few years ago.
First year watching?
It’s more so the ads than the penalties
I’m enjoying this season much less than normal but due to bad televised matchups, not penalties. The NFCE bores the hell out of me and we get a game of them per week in primetime. The Jets seem to have the max amount of primetime slots. TNF is always bad but I’ve skipped 2-3 SNF games this year, and I don’t know if I’ve ever done that by choice before this season. Just this past Sunday I believe 4-5 games ended by an FG margin and i didn’t have any of them televised in my area. Additionally, I hate the Europe games. Apparently my limit is 11 hours of football a day and 14 is too much for me.
I have slowly been watching a lot less football these last several years. I'm tired of the trash talking on social media by players and fans. Obviously bad officiating for the last decade, and the NFL refusing to fix it. It's not even the number of penalties, but the inconstancy of it. The constant squeezing more money out of me just to watch it on TV. Plus the lack of player development. Now with gambling being sanctioned, I expect a major gambling scandal any day now. It seems like the current crop of owners only care about money.
“DAE think the whole league sucks now and is in decline because my team is bad this year?”
Seems like far fewer but stupider penalties
No but the amount of advertisements has become unbearable to the extent that I really only enjoy watching RedZone now. We’ll be right back after a word from [fill in brand] — whilst in split screen during a 30 second timeout. They might as well just show ads nonstop like that.
No
You’re just getting older man.. embrace the depression.